Data: Wrong; Sustainability: Don't care; Robert Wintner: Aquarium trade should stop!

[TimT]

Hi Wayne,

Sorry for the late reply but I have been sick.

Originally Posted by naesco

I am not in the industry so my opinion is not biased.

My opinion is biased because I'm in the industry but Eric's is not? Isn't Eric in the same industry I am? Shouldn't he be biased too?

If you were in the industry you might know why Eric said "Let's take Hawaiian cleaner wrasse for example. We might have sold 1 all year long if that. I speak to the collectors and make sure they know not to collect them!"

Here is a little background info:
Eric's clientele are very price motivated. It is much easier for them to sell an Indo Pacific Cleaner wrasse for $10 than a Hawaiian cleaner wrasse for $60. Like Eric said "economics".

I don't think SDC or ERI can feed their fish simply due to logistics. There are other reasons like economics and that when the fish are only there for a week or less they will soon get fed at the stores tanks.

So when you take the cleaner wrasse from Indo/Philippines/Vietnam and they are not fed by the collector, exporter or wholesaler how long do you think the busy little fish has before it starves to death. Then when they get to the stores(not all stores do this) they are thrown a little rancid flake food, it's no wonder they die. This is one of the reasons for high mortality, starve a fish for too long and they won't start to eat again, especially if you offer them poor quality food they have never seen before.

Take a Hawaiian Cleaner Wrasse for example. Eric gets it and it has not been fed for a week or so. He doesn't feed it so it sits in the system week after week as no one wants to pay the price for it when the Indo Pacific ones are so cheap. Consequently poor little Hawaiian Cleaner Wrasse starves to death. Eric is a good business man so economics quickly take over and no more Hawaiian Cleaner Wrasses are ordered or collected.

Originally Posted by naesco

Tim you know Eric one of the largest marine fish importers in the USA.

Eric and I ordered from some of the same suppliers but that's about where the similarity ends. I fed my fish twice a day with the most nutritious marine based frozen food on the planet. It cost me a lot for the food and the labour to have employees feeding and then vacuuming the systems on a regular basis. That is why my fish had the reputation of quality that they did. Fish respond well when fed and the mortality rates of the "difficult fish" are considerably reduced. Regular species(sleeper goby's and damsels) even began to spawn in the holding system.

Originally Posted by naesco

Attached is an article in wetwebmedia.com by Robert Fenner and accomplished expert in fish and recognized as such.

Bob Fenner is someone that I respect greatly for his tireless work to educate hobbyists. I frequently recommend new hobbyists use his site for reference. He is however basing his opinions on what he sees happening in the US market.

Originally Posted by naesco

Reefers need to make their own opinion based on facts/

Yes, I agree totally. I am trying to give you some new facts based on my experience as a wholesaler but you seem to be biased against me for some reason?? Wayne, we are on the same side. That being of conservation and sustainable limits/use. That is one reason why I quit importing fish from Indonesia, Philippines and Vietnam. It is not all about money.


This hobby has come along way since I started in the mid 70's. Impossible to keep species are now breeding in captivity. Given time and better industry practices perhaps the difficult species of today will be able to survive in captivity for the long term.


On to the topic of Non Renewable resources. I find it interesting that copper used to be in that category. Since technology has moved along copper pipes have been replaced by plastic. There is no longer the concern of running out of copper. Then there is oil. I am hearing reports of oil fields that are supposed to run dry but they keep producing. There is apparently some mechanism whereby new oil is being created. One must ask... is there really such a thing as a non renewable resource?


How about "Extinct Species". Here is an interesting story.

"The first amphibian to have been officially declared extinct by the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) has been rediscovered in the north of Israel after some 60 years and turns out to be a unique “living fossil,” without close relatives among other living frogs, according to researchers at Hebrew University."

Full story can be read at:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...6#.Ua5NTMpYqkI

Lunch break is over so back to work!!!

Cheers,
Tim