HELP....Ginger has lots and lots of new puppies

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by lockrookie

im an owner operator slave of a locksmith company in regina. and when i bought the business i approached the humain society to offer my services to thier warrants. they were getting charged 85 bucks and up to open homes to rescue pets. who pays for that ?? noone just the donations to the humain society. so i do it for free. my good deeds done dirt cheep its all done legally. and i get to help save lives.

good on ya!

[howdy20012002]

LOL..this truly has turned into a circus side show.
thank god a moderator is involved or this thread would have been locked a long time ago.
All kidding aside...I can at least respect your determinism in your cause, regardless of my own point of view.
so, what happens when everyone only buys from "reconginized breeders" and/or adopt from rescue places.
What happens when all the rescue dogs are adopted. I mean there are lots of dogs waiting to be adopted, but in comparison to the millions of dogs every year that are purchased, the supply would very very quickly be drained.

not everyone wants to wait for 2 years to get a dog or pay a very large amount of money from what you are calling true breeders.

so does mean that people don't get to have a dog?

most of the dogs that people have come from people like me...not recoginized breeders...
why...because the breeders can't handle the demand..aka - the 2 year waiting list.

To be straight forward..Yes i bred Ginger for the money and because I enjoy her having puppies and I have a few people who have actually requested a puppy.

If your true breeders don't do it for the money why aren't they giving their puppies away???
lets be honest, unless it was a mistake, ultimately everyone breeds for money..or in some cases the prestige i guess they feel they get from the dog shows.
Which off course, if they do well at, the puppies they sell will be worth all the more.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by howdy20012002

If your true breeders don't do it for the money why aren't they giving their puppies away???
lets be honest, unless it was a mistake, ultimately everyone breeds for money..or in some cases the prestige i guess they feel they get from the dog shows.
Which off course, if they do well at, the puppies they sell will be worth all the more.

a lot of them do, it they have a puppy that they determin is extreamly hopfull they will make an arangment for a shared ownership which cost you nothing but they have the right to breed the dog at a later date.

a lot of them is prestege.. I was thinking of showing my dog just for bragging rights till I found out ho much it costs.. yes the top kennels are doing it for both the money and prestege, but realy there isn't much money. I worked it out after vet costs, food, time spent stud fees and such my breeder actualy lost money as there were only two pups in the litter. to break even he needed 5. why does he do it.. he loves goldens, he has some good dogs and likes the prestege of it all. as for my self when I looked into the price of showing I choked.. you will spend about 1000 / month for 2 or 3 shows and most likely won't win anything, if you get a profesional handler you have a way better chance of winning but they can double the price. if you want to go all the way and try for westminster, you pretty much need to campain your dog and people spend upwords of 100000.00 to do that. so not a poormans game.

and after thinking about it what point is there unless I am going to breed my doggie which I am not as there is to much liability on the stud dog in a regestered breeding.

I am not against breeding dogs, while I wouldn't buy a BYB dog as I would rather rescue a mutt than buy one, I am ok with it as long as the breeder is being responcible, providing the best care available, and is honest about it.

Steve

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by howdy20012002

If your true breeders don't do it for the money why aren't they giving their puppies away???
lets be honest, unless it was a mistake, ultimately everyone breeds for money..or in some cases the prestige i guess they feel they get from the dog shows.
Which off course, if they do well at, the puppies they sell will be worth all the more.

Well, I can't really speak with authority for most breeds, and Border Collies don't quite fit into normal criteria. A good breeder for my breed only breeds proven parents, those that place well in sheepdog trials, or work full time on a farm with stock. And usually when these breedings happen, it's to obtain their next working dog, with the rest sold to other handlers. And a PB Border Collie from proven parents can be found for $500 or less, so not a lot of money above costs.
We don't have a breed standard for physical traits, only the requirement to be able to work sheep well, which is a rather unique thing for BCs and we want to preserve.
Yes, some "show" barbie collies get produced, and sport dogs as well, often for a lot more money. But the true breeders don't do it for profit, they do it for love of the breed.
And to address your supply/demand question, if people refused to buy bulk rate puppies, the supply of quality pups would go up. Unfortunaely there will always be a profit factor, and my perfect world scenario will never come to be, but it's something to strive for, rather than just going with the flow.
There are people on my side, people on your side, and people on the fence. It's the fence sitters I'm hoping to influence, to at least slow the damage being done now. Ultimately, more and more breeds will vanish, or lose the ability to do what they were originally meant to do. For Border Collies, we strive to maintain the instinct to work with a handler in managing livestock.

[marie]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

.....
There are people on my side, people on your side, and people on the fence. It's the fence sitters I'm hoping to influence, to at least slow the damage being done now. Ultimately, more and more breeds will vanish, or lose the ability to do what they were originally meant to do. For Border Collies, we strive to maintain the instinct to work with a handler in managing livestock.

Border collies are the exception to the rule I'm afraid. Thats why they weren't recognized by the ckc for so long...the people that care for the breed wanted to keep the breeders who breed for show from messing them up.


*Edit* I don't have much use for so called professional breeders I'm afraid. There are good ones out there and then there are reputable breeders out there who were caught keeping genetic epilepsy in their stud dogs hidden from other breeders (true story)

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by marie

there are reputable breeders out there who were caught keeping genetic epilepsy in their stud dogs hidden from other breeders (true story)

how do they do that Marie? when I was looking into what was involved in having a stud dog you have to be able to show genetic info back 10 generations plus clearances and COIs. if there was a knowen problem such as that its genetic it would be pretty hard to hide. along with the responcibility of having the stud as any genetic problem seams to always be the studs fault and then you are on the hook for refunding the stud fees and dammages. I also discovered that even if the stud isn't at fault it is usaly blamed on him, god forbid there was somthing wrong with the bitch

I agree that there are "reputable" breeders out there that are not as ethical as they would protray, but that is why it is on the ownus of the purchser to do his home work also. I got in touch with about 10 people who have gotten dogs over the last 8 years from mine and had a good chat. usaly the not so good ones are not in business for very long or have a couple litters then disapear for a while and come back under a different name. I even wet as far as to look up 5 generations of clearances and genetic info on the mom and dad of my boy as it was all reported online and simple to look up. not only do you see that but you can see the litter mates of them all and see how long the dogs who are dead lived and usaly there is a reason for the death listed also.

Steve

[marie]

A friend of mine was a lab breeder and when puppies started coming back to her with epilepsy she checked back on her lines first and then investigated the stud breeder....they had managed to keep it hidden over 4 generations and when finally confronted they admitted that there was epilepsy in that line going back at least 6 generations.
Something like epilepsy is easier to hide then the more obvious hip displasia ect

[marie]

Any way Howdy I would take a good backyard breeder who raises the puppies in the home and chooses a good tempered stud over a "show confirmation" breeder anyday