HELP....Ginger has lots and lots of new puppies

[Jamieh]

Just so I get this all straight with the Holier than Thou breeders of the board. No one but you experts whose sole purpose is to further the genetic make-up and strive for perfection in the breed should be able to breed and sell puppies??? I wonder if the Labra-Doodle breeders are included in your clan?

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Jamieh

Just so I get this all straight with the Holier than Thou breeders of the board. No one but you experts whose sole purpose is to further the genetic make-up and strive for perfection in the breed should be able to breed and sell puppies??? I wonder if the Labra-Doodle breeders are included in your clan?

Hmm, antagonism is great. Let's go with it. Each dog has a purpose (you have a dog, right?). The purpose of the dog should be maintained or improved upon in a breeding program. We'll use Bostons, since this is what the thread is about. Bostons were originally bred for the show ring. In this case, true afficiandos of Boston Terriers would assert that only top placing dogs in nationally recongnized shows are bred. This keeps the true nature of the breed intact. We also want to weed out cataracts (both juvenile and adult type), cherry eye, luxating patellas, deafness, heart murmur, and allergies. Parents and grand-parents checked and cleared? Right. Next. Temperment. Do all the lines of this litter have the desired temperment? Hope so, I see lots of dogs discarded for temperment issues, and repeat breedings done to create more problem dogs. Is the breeder prepared to be responsible for the life of all pups, following up as needed?
anything doodles are just wrong, not even gonna get into that.

But holier than thou, not so much. Holier than you? I'd say absolutely. I'm standing up for dogs that don't get a say in any of this, you're just shooting your mouth off on the Internet. If you've got some facts, bring them, if you've just got a mouth, go away.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Jamieh

whose sole purpose is to further the genetic make-up and strive for perfection in the breed should be able to breed and sell puppies???

sorry if I haven't been absolutely clear here. Yes, this is exactly what I'm saying.

[foreveringlass]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

The ridiculous part is someone breeding as a part time activity, for reasons not yet determined in this thread. Seriously, post this kind of thing on a dog board, you'd get toasted. And the obvious amount of uninformed people replying dictates that the things being said get said. I hae nothing against Neal, I'm sure he means well and didn't let a monetary calculation decide for him, but hobbyist breeding is a major contributor to the over population of dogs in our country.
I'm not trying to fight with anyone, or even condemn anyone, I'm just representing this scenario from the dog's perspective. There are already too many dogs, and adding to that number for anything but the right reasons (contributing postively to the breed as a whole) should be discouraged. And even if Neal sets out to be a responsible breeder, it's a huge task to track all the pups for their entire lifetime. Which you need to do, to determine any issues that have arisen from the breeding. I can give countless examples of well meaning (and not so well meaning) breeders falling down in their responsibilities. And in the end, the only one that suffers is the dog. And ultimately, this should be about the dogs, not about someone selling pups, or someone wanting a cute little puppy. It's about a living being not getting a life they deserve due to lack of foresight into their futures. So for the dog's sakes, I just ask that everyone gives a little more thought to how and where puppies end up.

You see the thing is, this is NOT a dog board. So why is it your job to "toast" the poor guy? The tread was about having too many puppies, and trying to get advice on how to help them and the mother. Kudos to him for asking for help! Shame on you for being so harsh and judgmental! The problem is not hobby breeders, it is the irresponsible pet owners who let their bitches run wild while in heat! I have gotten 2 dogs from breeders and have NEVER had follow up with them. Both were very caring, we were interviewed several times and ended up on a wait list forever. But that didn't insure follow up by the breeder once, not to mention the lifetime of tracking you preach! Buying from a breeder does not nessecaraly ensure that the dog will have a home it's entire life. Sometimes things happen outside controllable parameters. One can only hope that a puppy is finding a loving home for life.
Neal, Glad to hear mama is better. Did you try the pumpkin trick? Have fun with your pups.

[Jamieh]

My turn now. See you have a Bichon and you have a Shih-Tzu. Purpose of both to 90% of world is family pet. Both have some problems in the breed such as nasal in the Shih-Tzu. Cross breed them and you usually end up with a great family pet with few health issues. But to you perfect people this should not be allowed and little Sally should have Shih-Tzu with bad nasal problems. Not to mention how few actual genetic breeders there are vs how many people only want a good healthy family pet.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by foreveringlass

You see the thing is, this is NOT a dog board.

And that's why I'm being nice I agree, nothing is perfect, and not all breeders are the same, or do what should be done. Some are, some aren't. One of my dogs came from a BYB before I knew any better, and he's the best dog in the world. but I needed some info fromthe breeder, and got nothing.
My other pup came from the scenario that I "preach" about, and I do have the support for the lifetime of the pup. I hope I don't need it, but it's there. And the owners of the parents both follow up to find out how the dog is developing, for future breeding concerns. Just basic responsible stuff. Can we expect that this will ever become standard? I doubt it.

And as I said, this isn't against Neal, it's a general overview designed to make people think a little more about choices. You're right, it's great of him to come here looking for help, but to me, that says he might not have been as prepared as he should have been for breeding. But it's done, and we all hope the pups get great forever homes and live long happy lives.

But in my community of peers, we're heavily involved in dogs and see the tragedies daily of inappropriate breeding. Some with our own dogs, and tons of horror stories from people we meet at trials, tournaments, etc.

I'm advocating for the dogs that can't do it for themselves, and if people's feelings get hurt along the way, I'm sorry, but they'll get over it. The dogs often suffer things they can't get over.
Again, yes, kudos to Neal for asking for help, it's a sign he's going in the right direction. However, I question the reasoning for even starting the journey, based on my previous points.
Trust me, I'm a realist, and I know the majority of people don't have a clue what I'm going on about and think I'm nuts (maybe I hang out with dogs too much), but some people are going to think about it, and maybe not breed fluffy to that cute little guy down the street that does neet tricks. And maybe we'll have a few less dogs looking for homes down the road.
I'm not trying to tell people what to do, I'm asking people to think about more than themselves. Not too much, IMO.

[Jamieh]

I also find it quite amusing that people point to pet store selling puppies as the major cause of shelters being crowded yet you refer to fluffy down the street being bred. I visit shelters and the SPCA very regularly and very rarely do I see many small breed dogs in their windowns yet when I visit pet stores I find only small breed dogs in their windows????

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Jamieh

My turn now. See you have a Bichon and you have a Shih-Tzu. Purpose of both to 90% of world is family pet. Both have some problems in the breed such as nasal in the Shih-Tzu. Cross breed them and you usually end up with a great family pet with few health issues. But to you perfect people this should not be allowed and little Sally should have Shih-Tzu with bad nasal problems. Not to mention how few actual genetic breeders there are vs how many people only want a good healthy family pet.

If you met me, you'd realize I really am perfect. Thanks for recognizing that.
So in your example, I have to question how the shih-tzu got to be that way? Inappropriate breeding perhaps? Here's an idea. If you just want a family pet, I can send you a link to petfinder, they have a few listed. Lots of designer colors and stuff, I'm sure you'll find something you like. They even have puppies.
In defense of you though, thanks for representing fact. I'm trying hard to be non confrontational, which is challenging for me

P.S. I'm not really perfect, I just know a lot about dogs, and this is often the subject of discussions over coffee It really is a problem, and usually only discussed on dog boards, so it's refreshing to be able to present this point of view to non dog people. Hopefully some get it, those that don't, I get it....

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Jamieh

I also find it quite amusing that people point to pet store selling puppies as the major cause of shelters being crowded yet you refer to fluffy down the street being bred. I visit shelters and the SPCA very regularly and very rarely do I see many small breed dogs in their windowns yet when I visit pet stores I find only small breed dogs in their windows????

My parents bought a small breed dog from a pet store. It died 3 weeks later of exploding heart. Blood all over my mom as she held it. Ya, it never made it to the pound.
The problem with pet store puppies, in general, are health issues. They often come from puppy mills that mass produce without regard to any of the issues discussed. It's a for profit business model.
Most times you visit a city pound, you only see mutts. This is due to the purebreds being shipped out immediately to breed specific rescues who are much better equipped to find the dog a proper home. Like I said, BTCC has 70 Boston Terriers a year come through their rescue. Border Collie rescues all across N America get thousands of PB BCs each year. Call any small breed specific rescue and ask how many they process, I bet you'll be shocked.

[Jamieh]

Little general with your thoughts on pet stores I think. And that sample size of your parents is conclusive evidence. I think when you consider they number of Boston puppies born each year finding 70 go to rescue is not exactly a large number not than any number is good. I have heard of many people's stories over the years about health issues with so called registered professional breeders. I don't however jump to the conclusion that all are bad!!