Morality and Fish

Howie · #1 02-19-2015, 03:08 AM

I do not believe it is wrong as long as the person makes every effort to keep the fish healthy and alive. Experimentation is why we are able to keep so many animals/fish in captivity. People have to be willing to dedicate their time and money to provide the best care possible.

jorjef · #2 02-19-2015, 03:14 AM

Tiring fast. All the moral gibber jab about what's best for fish, supplying the best "habitat" the best tank conditions to make their little lives more bearable in a glass box makes me want to puke. WE ALL are guilty anyone who thinks they are doing a fish a favor by offering the best living conditions possible has a very fogged thinking. Buy a fish, put it in your tank. It will die, all things do. Today tomorrow or in a week what ever. If we didn't want pretty things to look at in glass box of water we wouldn't buy a tank to begin with so people if you want to wear your I offer the best solution for the little fishes of the world badge of honour go ahead I'm sure all the fish at the local fish shop are screaming pick me pick me when you walk buy.

To answer the question I have bought high risk fish and of coarse it died, will I do it again. Nope..not because of any moral dilemma but because I'm cheap.

Fyi my response has nothing to do with the other two posts, take no offence just a rant that has been building for awhile.

This hobby is the equivalent to jailing innocent people. Oh oh. You come with me while I put you in an 8x10. I will offer you the best I can though.

Aquattro · #3 02-19-2015, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorjef

Tiring fast. All the moral gibber jab about what's best for fish, supplying the best "habitat" the best tank conditions to make their little lives more bearable in a glass box makes me want to puke. WE ALL are guilty anyone who thinks they are doing a fish a favor by offering the best living conditions possible has a very fogged thinking. Buy a fish, put it in your tank. It will die, all things do. Today tomorrow or in a week what ever. If we didn't want pretty things to look at in glass box of water we wouldn't buy a tank to begin with so people if you want to wear your I offer the best solution for the little fishes of the world badge of honour go ahead I'm sure all the fish at the local fish shop are screaming pick me pick me when you walk buy.

I'd also agree with this line of thinking as well

IanWR · #4 02-19-2015, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorjef

Tiring fast. All the moral gibber jab about what's best for fish, supplying the best "habitat" the best tank conditions to make their little lives more bearable in a glass box makes me want to puke. WE ALL are guilty anyone who thinks they are doing a fish a favor by offering the best living conditions possible has a very fogged thinking.

I get what you are saying. There are people who seem to suggest that keeping pets saves them from a miserable life in the wild. That is clearly silly. And yet I think there is a middle ground between "pets are fully sentient" and "pets are objects". I have similar feelings about cattle. Yes, we keep them to kill and eat them. Yet I don't think that means we can treat them any way we feel like. I feel like we owe them proper nutrition, a modicum of space so they don't go crazy, and as quick a death as we can manage. So in an aquarium context, it means (for me) not being cavalier about the critters I keep. I don't lose sleep if I buy a coral and it dies, but I do attempt to create conditions that it could thrive. And that means researching, asking for advice from those with more experience, and making reasonable choices with what I buy. I don't feel foggy, but maybe I'm out to lunch? Maybe with a few more years under my belt I'll feel differently.

Howie · #5 02-19-2015, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanWR

I get what you are saying. There are people who seem to suggest that keeping pets saves them from a miserable life in the wild. That is clearly silly. And yet I think there is a middle ground between "pets are fully sentient" and "pets are objects". I have similar feelings about cattle. Yes, we keep them to kill and eat them. Yet I don't think that means we can treat them any way we feel like. I feel like we owe them proper nutrition, a modicum of space so they don't go crazy, and as quick a death as we can manage. So in an aquarium context, it means (for me) not being cavalier about the critters I keep. I don't lose sleep if I buy a coral and it dies, but I do attempt to create conditions that it could thrive. And that means researching, asking for advice from those with more experience, and making reasonable choices with what I buy. I don't feel foggy, but maybe I'm out to lunch? Maybe with a few more years under my belt I'll feel differently.

Definitely agree!

Aquattro · #6 02-19-2015, 03:53 AM

I certainly don't consider them objects, and attempt to give them as happy a life as is possible within the confines of my selfish little glass box. I wouldn't let a fish needlessly suffer without aid or a quick exit.

Aquattro · #7 02-19-2015, 04:07 AM

Thought we'd get more input into this. Tough crowd...

Madreefer · #8 02-19-2015, 04:34 AM

I don't see a problem with someone like yourself or any other person that's been in the hobby for along time who has some experience. I get annoyed at those who are constantly asking the newbie questions (that seem to be stupid questions to us), getting those hard to keep fish. It's those same people that also turn in to self proclaimed experts 2yrs in

Oh this fish is so cool and you may not be able to keep it alive but I can. I have a Seaclone 150 ya know!
Tough crowd you say? A few years ago there would have been 10 pages on this topic and probably a heated argument or two.

Any comments Marko? Poor guy took it hard on that one

Aquattro · #9 02-19-2015, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howie

I do not believe it is wrong as long as the person makes every effort to keep the fish healthy and alive. Experimentation is why we are able to keep so many animals/fish in captivity. People have to be willing to dedicate their time and money to provide the best care possible.

Ya, I would tend to agree with that. I've made what I believe are suitable provisions to QT and feed/medicate as required.

IanWR · #10 02-19-2015, 03:23 AM

Like most ethical questions, it is complicated. I take as my starting point that I believe that as living beings we owe it to our livestock to be responsible caretakers. Assuming you found a Moorish Idol at a LFS, perhaps it is a good thing to take it home as you have a wealth of experience, and you may have a better than average chance of having it thrive. And yet your purchace encourages your LFS to bring in more Idols, which encourages suppliers to catch more, which may be a bad thing. If there are livestock that have a terrible survival rate, perhaps they would be better off not being harvested.