Likely the only group to talk about Moo

lol, you dont get them to do anything, its called manhandling...
alot of people treat fish like delicate butterflys, they are pretty durably actually, if people treated their fish a little rougher when they just started to get ill, they would have alot better luck at treating them. By rougher i mean, grab your starving fishy, pry their mouth open and stuff them full of food, when they have ick or velvet, get out the soft bristle toothbrush and give them a vigirous scrub, when they have bloat, stab them with a real syringe and drain the air out(this takes a little more skill), if they have a bad parisite, cut it out, Ive cut out gill tissue and not had problems. Most people dont seem to treat their sick fish untill their fish is really sick, then its too late...

[christyf5]

Man I'd like to come up there and give you a vigorous scrub with a man sized toothbrush. I hope you aren't serious.

Im very serious, nothing wrong with a good scrubbing. A little skin rash is better than death...
P.S. I showered, thanks for the offer though....

[christyf5]

Well I certainly hope most people, especially new reefers don't read your "fabulous" methods. How would you like to be squeezed and have half your side scrubbed off by a rough toothbrush?? No toothbrush in the world is soft enough to not lift scales off a fish. That would be like rubbing your skin off. Scales are a fish's last protection against infection and you are rubbing it off! So yeah, the fungus is gone, but what about all the other things that you've now opened the fish up to? Clipping a fish's gills is a tricky operation. You do realize those are blood vessels you are cutting, too deep and the fish bleeds to death. Fish blood coagulates faster than humans but once you've severed an artery thats that. And the handling (manhandling as you call it) stresses the crap out of the fish which causes a myriad of biochemical reactions in the fish and suppresses its immune system.


So tell me how long do these fish last in your care or do you farm them off right away after they're eating or don't have the ugly parasites on them and look more desirable for your customers?

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by christyf5

Well I certainly hope most people, especially new reefers don't read your "fabulous" methods. How would you like to be squeezed and have half your side scrubbed off by a rough toothbrush?? No toothbrush in the world is soft enough to not lift scales off a fish. That would be like rubbing your skin off. Scales are a fish's last protection against infection and you are rubbing it off! So yeah, the fungus is gone, but what about all the other things that you've now opened the fish up to? Clipping a fish's gills is a tricky operation. You do realize those are blood vessels you are cutting, too deep and the fish bleeds to death. Fish blood coagulates faster than humans but once you've severed an artery thats that. And the handling (manhandling as you call it) stresses the crap out of the fish which causes a myriad of biochemical reactions in the fish and suppresses its immune system.


So tell me how long do these fish last in your care or do you farm them off right away after they're eating or don't have the ugly parasites on them and look more desirable for your customers?

Christy, actualy I have read books recomending all the things he listed.

even with sea horses it is said you might have to use a seringe to suck air from the males pouch.. I am sure they don't just sit there and let you do this

still the better fix is prevention.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by christyf5

Man I'd like to come up there and give you a vigorous scrub with a man sized toothbrush.

Do you have a waiting list for this yet or is there still time to get in on it?

Steve

[Chad]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

Do you have a waiting list for this yet or is there still time to get in on it?

Steve

lol... that does sounds interesting doesn't it?

"Well I certainly hope most people, especially new reefers don't read your "fabulous" methods."

Dont worry, most will just put some medication in the tank just before their fish dies, coloured water is nicer to die in mabey?

"How would you like to be squeezed and have half your side scrubbed off by a rough toothbrush?? No toothbrush in the world is soft enough to not lift scales off a fish. That would be like rubbing your skin off. Scales are a fish's last protection against infection and you are rubbing it off! So yeah, the fungus is gone, but what about all the other things that you've now opened the fish up to? "

If I had a parisite half sticking out of my skin, or a legion that wouldnt go away, I would go to the hospital and get it removed and scrubed clean, then go on antibiotics for abit to help me fight off infection that I am now seceptible too.

"Clipping a fish's gills is a tricky operation. You do realize those are blood vessels you are cutting, too deep and the fish bleeds to death. Fish blood coagulates faster than humans but once you've severed an artery thats that." "

I relize what it is that Im doing, I understand the anatomy of a fish, and I dont reccommend most trying this unless the fish appears to be a goner for sure, but when a fish comes in with a bad parisite infection in its gills, and the tissue is damaged and rotting, it will spread and the fish will soon die, by cutting out the dead, or infected material, the fish lives, a much better option in my books.

"And the handling (manhandling as you call it) stresses the crap out of the fish which causes a myriad of biochemical reactions in the fish and suppresses its immune system. "

This is something that is done when a fish is already in trouble, otherwise I leave them alone, suppressing their immune system, and stressing them out is the least of their worries when their about to die unless I interveen.

"So tell me how long do these fish last in your care or do you farm them off right away after they're eating or don't have the ugly parasites on them and look more desirable for your customers?"

Your speculation is ignorant, at least thats the way it comes off... we specialize in high end marine life, people dont walk off the street and buy from us, our business is by a appointment only and we only offer quality livestock, fish that come in rough are treated as necessary, held untill healed up well, and eating vigirously, most of our fish are feeding by hand before going into our customers tanks, why would we pawn off sick crap fish if we wanted return business??? Most of customers have tanks that are maintianed by us, I dont want to deal with a tank full of sick fish, only healthy specimens are sold. On average, most fish are probably with us for a min of 1 month before going into our customers tanks. When you are dealing with a single fish that costs us $1500-$2500 wholesale, you go to great lengths to make sure the fish is healthy, I have always just carried over the same care with lesser costing fish as well. I think it is a little rude how you word your assuming comments. If you didnt mean it in a demeaning way, Im sorry for getting in a huff, but I pride myself in our quality....

[AJ_77]

While the methods mentioned seem bizarre and extreme to some, this isn't the first time I've seen them mentioned either. It's a frustrating experience that we read about all too often where an aquarist watches helplessly as a fish dies, even as various cures are attempted.

I guess a rough treatment that works is better in the end than a bunch of lost causes that don't save the animal.

Not that I'd try the syringe thing, though...

[Chad]

Originally Posted by AJ_77

Not that I'd try the syringe thing, though...

Yeah, that does sound nasty.. I don't know a fishes anatomy enough to attempt that treatment. All in all I can see his point however. I have had some pretty interesting medical surgeries that I think was cruel and unusal punishment but it did the job.