Tang Police or Tang Nazis?

[gobytron]

Originally Posted by JonT

Part of our jobs as the owner of these small eco systems is to best replicate the inhabitants natural environment. Isn't it?

Do you buy a German sheppard and stuff it into a small crate? I mean, it can turn around in there. There is room for it to eat and such. So, that is okay then right? Dog seems happy when I stick my fingers in the front grate...... This will get me in jail if I put a picture of it on a dog forum, and talk about it. All the while ignoring all advice being given to me by the members of that community.

Can you keep a tang in a 90.. Sure. Can someone new to the hobby do the same.. Maybe. The person that has more experience with water chemistry will likely have a healthier tang in a year.

Can you put a 5" yellow tang in a biocube? Sure you can. You can even go on the forums, and tell everyone that no matter how many reasons they provide you with, your not going to do anything differently. And your not going to have to worry about police... cause well, its a fish... No fur...

I have yet to read that article. But even without doing so, can still comment on my opinions (and yes, there are times when I dust off the tang police badge) Fish need an appropriate amount of room. Tangs do not stay in one area in the wild. (there was a video posted here the other day with Atlantic blue's they came, and left) We keep them in a glass box. The least we can do is give them the room they need to reach speeds capable of splashing the water out of the tank.

Can you keep a tang in a 90.. Sure. Can someone new to the hobby do the same.. Maybe. The person that has more experience with water chemistry will likely have a healthier tang in a year.

As with all opinions in this hobby (wanna talk DSB's?) They come backed with personal experience.

Gets off the soap box, and puts the badge back into the jacket pocket.

No tank you can build will ever come close to replicating a fishes natural habitat or range...lol

You have your own soapbox and it seems to be of the hypocritical kind...lol

If you take a fish out of the ocean and put it into your tank, you are NO better than someone who throws a yellow tang in a 50 gallon...

If I kidnapyou and take you away from your home, family and habitat, do you care if I stick you in an apartment or house?

This hobby just seems to attract those with an odd sense of being righteous...maybe to deal with the guilt of raping the oceans...the rape in which we ALL (unless your tank is exclusively captive raised and eco live rock) take part in...

Make yourself feel better about things if you must, just dont expect those of us whove cashed in our reality cheques to care.

[viperfish]

Originally Posted by gobytron

No tank you can build will ever come close to replicating a fishes natural habitat or range...lol

You have your own soapbox and it seems to be of the hypocritical kind...lol

If you take a fish out of the ocean and put it into your tank, you are NO better than someone who throws a yellow tang in a 50 gallon...

If I kidnapyou and take you away from your home, family and habitat, do you care if I stick you in an apartment or house?

This hobby just seems to attract those with an odd sense of being righteous...maybe to deal with the guilt of raping the oceans...the rape in which we ALL (unless your tank is exclusively captive raised and eco live rock)...

MAke yourself feel better about things if you must, just dont expect those of us whove cashed in our reality cheques to care.

It's like you took the words right out of my mouth!

[Skimmerking]

Ok SO my 8 footer that will house a
Orange Shoulder tang
Kole Tang
Tommi Tang
Sailfin Tang
5 Yellow tangs
Chevron tang

will be good not to mention the other 17 fish that i will have in there.


mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm good to know I thought that it was to much.

[JonT]

Originally Posted by gobytron

No tank you can build will ever come close to replicating a fishes natural habitat or range...lol

You have your own soapbox and it seems to be of the hypocritical kind...lol

If you take a fish out of the ocean and put it into your tank, you are NO better than someone who throws a yellow tang in a 50 gallon...

If I kidnapyou and take you away from your home, family and habitat, do you care if I stick you in an apartment or house?

This hobby just seems to attract those with an odd sense of being righteous...maybe to deal with the guilt of raping the oceans...the rape in which we ALL (unless your tank is exclusively captive raised and eco live rock)...

MAke yourself feel better about things if you must, just dont expect those of us whove cashed in our reality cheques to care.

Wow. Okay then....

I was simply pointing out that while we have taken the fish from the ocean our job was to take care of it as best we can.

Sorry if that got lost in the translation. Was just making a comparison using a dog. Lots of popular TV shows regarding animal cruelty these days. But not for animals with fins.....

As for eco rock? Really? Dig a big hole toss all kinds of sediments into the water ways, destroying local lakes, and rivers eco systems. Pollutants in the air from the equipment digging it up etc. So that we feel better? I will stick with my live rock. I am sure that it isn't collected per the "loose rock" rules that most regions have, but less impact than digging holes, refining the rocks to turn it back into rock.

As for being no better than the next, your wrong there. I do frequent the forums. I make educated purchases. I make sure that I am not buying something unreasonable for my aquarium. I don't just trust some kid at a store that it is "okay" I stick with sponsors that know what the hell their doing. And even then, I still will wait on a purchase till I have looked it up myself.

[lastlight]

*lays a man-slapping on lance*

[Zoaelite]

How do you measure the stress level of a fish, or better yet how do you measure the stress level of a fish with out stressing it out?

Link me plz.

[shrimpchips]

Originally Posted by zoaElite

How do you measure the stress level of a fish, or better yet how do you measure the stress level of a fish with out stressing it out?

Link me plz.

In the article a study was cited in passing of measured cortisol levels being the same in acclimated stock as wild stock.

I love threads about an article where nobody reads the article. Read the article - I think it's pretty informative and lays a lot of issues out in a reasonable manner.

I'mall for appropriately sizing a tank to a fish - obviously a 7" fish should not go in a 12" cube. But a 6" fish in a 3' tank? Sure, it CAN swim really far and fast, but does it have to?

[Skimmerking]

Originally Posted by shrimpchips

In the article a study was cited in passing of measured cortisol levels being the same in acclimated stock as wild stock.

I love threads about an article where nobody reads the article. Read the article - I think it's pretty informative and lays a lot of issues out in a reasonable manner.

I'mall for appropriately sizing a tank to a fish - obviously a 7" fish should not go in a 12" cube. But a 6" fish in a 3' tank? Sure, it CAN swim really far and fast, but does it have to?

I think that the 7" fish in a 12" was a joke or mistaken somewhere. these always go that way.

[gobytron]

Originally Posted by JonT

Wow. Okay then....

I was simply pointing out that while we have taken the fish from the ocean our job was to take care of it as best we can.

Sorry if that got lost in the translation. Was just making a comparison using a dog. Lots of popular TV shows regarding animal cruelty these days. But not for animals with fins.....

As for eco rock? Really? Dig a big hole toss all kinds of sediments into the water ways, destroying local lakes, and rivers eco systems. Pollutants in the air from the equipment digging it up etc. So that we feel better? I will stick with my live rock. I am sure that it isn't collected per the "loose rock" rules that most regions have, but less impact than digging holes, refining the rocks to turn it back into rock.

As for being no better than the next, your wrong there. I do frequent the forums. I make educated purchases. I make sure that I am not buying something unreasonable for my aquarium. I don't just trust some kid at a store that it is "okay" I stick with sponsors that know what the hell their doing. And even then, I still will wait on a purchase till I have looked it up myself.

None of this makes you any less of a detriment to the state of the oceans.
You can say I am better than the rest because I do my research and cross my t's and dot my i's but it doesnt change a thing anywhere but in your own eyes.
You are still taking these animals out of their home and putting them into yours for YOUR OWN PERSONAL BENEFIT.

And as far as the eco rock goes, I thought I was pretty clear in speaking only in the context of being guilty of the rape of our oceans....lol
not of other forms of environmental destruction.
Speculation is fun and it can sure help you make a point but really, you would need a pretty in depth study to truly determine which was more harmfull overall to the general environment.

Also....lol
as a side note, both my German Short Haired Pointer and my Chihuahua are crate trained and are healthier, happier animals for it and nobody is going to send me to jail for that.

[globaldesigns]

Originally Posted by gobytron

None of this makes you any less of a detriment to the state of the oceans.
You can say I am better than the rest because I do my research and cross my t's and dot my i's but it doesnt change a thing anywhere but in your own eyes.
You are still taking these animals out of their home and putting them into yours for YOUR OWN PERSONAL BENEFIT.

And as far as the eco rock goes, I thought I was pretty clear in speaking only in the context of being guilty of the rape of our oceans....lol
not of other forms of environmental destruction.
Speculation is fun and it can sure help you make a point but really, you would need a pretty in depth study to truly determine which was more harmfull overall to the general environment.

GobyTron, I think you are coming across a little harsh... You probably don't mean it though, its the common problem with forums. Believe me, I have had my fair share of my comments being taken the wrong way.

I think we all can say that non of us have the right, but we still do... So lets just try the best we can for our little inhabitants. If we all really cared enough, then we wouldn't be taking anything from the oceans, so I guess we are all selfish/greedy.

Just my 2cents.