Tang Police or Tang Nazis?

[globaldesigns]

Originally Posted by gobytron

None of this makes you any less of a detriment to the state of the oceans.
You can say I am better than the rest because I do my research and cross my t's and dot my i's but it doesnt change a thing anywhere but in your own eyes.
You are still taking these animals out of their home and putting them into yours for YOUR OWN PERSONAL BENEFIT.

And as far as the eco rock goes, I thought I was pretty clear in speaking only in the context of being guilty of the rape of our oceans....lol
not of other forms of environmental destruction.
Speculation is fun and it can sure help you make a point but really, you would need a pretty in depth study to truly determine which was more harmfull overall to the general environment.

GobyTron, I think you are coming across a little harsh... You probably don't mean it though, its the common problem with forums. Believe me, I have had my fair share of my comments being taken the wrong way.

I think we all can say that non of us have the right, but we still do... So lets just try the best we can for our little inhabitants. If we all really cared enough, then we wouldn't be taking anything from the oceans, so I guess we are all selfish/greedy.

Just my 2cents.

[gobytron]

Harsh?

just pointing out the obvious in my mind.

Apologies to those who may feel offended by my words here but maybe it's because they make sense and that doesnt feel too good.

In my mind, it's reality thats harsh and not me.

Admittably, there is no one I would rather play devils advocate to than tank nazis.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by gobytron

Harsh?

just pointing out the obvious in my mind.

I gotta agree with you. It's a conflict of interest, in my mind, to defend a fish's rights and freedoms when you in fact own a fish. Is a 180 better than a 90 for a tang? Probably, but marginally at best. Unless you own a tank about a kilometer long, you're not coming close to replicating it's environment. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that unless your gallonage has 4 digits, the tang might as well be in a biocube.
I've heard of tangs settling down once leaving a 4' tank for a 6'. I see no difference in mine after this move. They cannot get anywhere near cruising speed, and you can tell they'd rather be home in the ocean.

So while I may admire the intent to do well, believing we are is simply fiction. Reality is, we are a menace to the reefs!

[JonT]

Originally Posted by gobytron

None of this makes you any less of a detriment to the state of the oceans.

Yes it does. People are taking care of animals better through research. They are breeding animals that 10 years ago we couldn't (wanna get a tank raised mandarin, that will eat prepared food, you can. Couldn't a couple years ago)

Originally Posted by gobytron

You can say I am better than the rest because I do my research and cross my t's and dot my i's but it doesnt change a thing anywhere but in your own eyes.
You are still taking these animals out of their home and putting them into yours for YOUR OWN PERSONAL BENEFIT.

Sure I am, but in my tank, I have setup the tank to keep my fish healthy. I would bet your tanks are setup in the best interests of the inhabitants your looking to put in there.

Originally Posted by gobytron

And as far as the eco rock goes, I thought I was pretty clear in speaking only in the context of being guilty of the rape of our oceans....lol
not of other forms of environmental destruction.
Speculation is fun and it can sure help you make a point but really, you would need a pretty in depth study to truly determine which was more harmfull overall to the general environment.

And I was pointing out that sometimes this "rape" of the ocean is a better solution than the Eco friendly ways. I did a quick look, and all the eco rock sellers I could find state; We dig this rock from X year old reefs. (pollutants, land erosion etc) Then power wash the rock (where is all that silt running too?) to sell it as 100% clean rock.

Originally Posted by gobytron

Also....lol
as a side note, both my German Short Haired Pointer and my Chihuahua are crate trained and are healthier, happier animals for it and nobody is going to send me to jail for that.

Again, ya missed what I was saying. If you leave those dogs in their crate 24/7 you can bet your butt you can be in trouble for it. But I am guessing they are in there while you work, maybe at night too. Nothing wrong with that. We don't have the option of taking the fish for a walk, or letting it out in the back yard. So, we try to give it the best we can.



If not for the hobby in the first place, some of the learning that has happened in the past few years would not exist. Talk to any of the industry (hobby?) leaders at any of the shows. They will all talk about how the hobby has helped with the industry, and renewal projects on the reefs.

Now, please, if you have something to debate, or add to a conversation, do so. Don't sit here and nit pick one persons thoughts and opinions. That sort of thinking is not healthy.

[Aquattro]

I'll reiterate again, if you keep fish in a tank, you're a hazard to the oceans Equating dogs and crates isn't entirely accurate. Tank/fish size is like comparing taking a wild wolf and keeping in the extra large size crate instead of the undersized medium crate. The furrari Xtra large is a wonderful crate, but the wolf isn't any better off than if it was in the undersized crate. The wolf belongs in the forest. The fish belong in the ocean.
We don't need to "research" reefs in aquariums. How many millions of fish have died, tons of rocks mined, corals ripped from the wild, all in the name of this research??
Sure, we all have our excuses for why we keep them anyway, but it's still bad for everything but us.

[globaldesigns]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

I'll reiterate again, if you keep fish in a tank, you're a hazard to the oceans Equating dogs and crates isn't entirely accurate. Tank/fish size is like comparing taking a wild wolf and keeping in the extra large size crate instead of the undersized medium crate. The furrari Xtra large is a wonderful crate, but the wolf isn't any better off than if it was in the undersized crate. The wolf belongs in the forest. The fish belong in the ocean.
We don't need to "research" reefs in aquariums. How many millions of fish have died, tons of rocks mined, corals ripped from the wild, all in the name of this research??
Sure, we all have our excuses for why we keep them anyway, but it's still bad for everything but us.

As I stated prior, and +1 to you. We are ALL Selfish, but again this is human.

We can go on this topic forever, but overall the human race are the pilligers of the planet, we take, and don't replace. We take for pleasure, not just for survival... Name another creature that is like this, NONE!!!

I agree with Gobytrons and others comments also... I guess it is just a matter how we present/represent ourselves. This the reason I commented prior to your comments.

Really do we have a right to scrutinize anyone for having too small a tank, when in reality none of us should have one?

[gobytron]

Originally Posted by JonT

Yes it does. People are taking care of animals better through research. They are breeding animals that 10 years ago we couldn't (wanna get a tank raised mandarin, that will eat prepared food, you can. Couldn't a couple years ago)



Sure I am, but in my tank, I have setup the tank to keep my fish healthy. I would bet your tanks are setup in the best interests of the inhabitants your looking to put in there.


And I was pointing out that sometimes this "rape" of the ocean is a better solution than the Eco friendly ways. I did a quick look, and all the eco rock sellers I could find state; We dig this rock from X year old reefs. (pollutants, land erosion etc) Then power wash the rock (where is all that silt running too?) to sell it as 100% clean rock.


Again, ya missed what I was saying. If you leave those dogs in their crate 24/7 you can bet your butt you can be in trouble for it. But I am guessing they are in there while you work, maybe at night too. Nothing wrong with that. We don't have the option of taking the fish for a walk, or letting it out in the back yard. So, we try to give it the best we can.



If not for the hobby in the first place, some of the learning that has happened in the past few years would not exist. Talk to any of the industry (hobby?) leaders at any of the shows. They will all talk about how the hobby has helped with the industry, and renewal projects on the reefs.

Now, please, if you have something to debate, or add to a conversation, do so. Don't sit here and nit pick one persons thoughts and opinions. That sort of thinking is not healthy.

LOL...
It's like we're having 2 different conversations...

[daniella3d]

Just curious but are you doing a strict quarantine each time you introduce something? Because that's definitly more important to keep fish healthy than 50 gallons difference in a tank.

I know a lot of people who don't give a darn about ich and let the fish burst in ich here and there and say "it's nothing, it will go away on its own" and those same people are almost dropping dead if they see a 3" baby tang in a 90 gallons tank. I bet the tang in the 90 gallons tank that does not have harrassing parasite and ich burst is a LOT more happy and healthy than the one in the 180 gallons full of ich harrassing it each day (weather you see white spots or not).

I have seen blue hippo tang with horrible deformation due to HLLE and that was in a big 150 gallons tank. Obviously the fish was underfed or not fed the proper food.

A lot of people will not care much for this but will be heal over head for an aquarium size.

Originally Posted by JonT

Sure I am, but in my tank, I have setup the tank to keep my fish healthy. I would bet your tanks are setup in the best interests of the inhabitants your looking to put in there.

[Jackie]

Originally Posted by gobytron

If you take a fish out of the ocean and put it into your tank, you are NO better than someone who throws a yellow tang in a 50 gallon...

+1

How about a taking a fish from the ocean and put it on your dinner plate?
You eat it, you stress him once.
You keep it in your tank, for sure you stress him more than once.

[gobytron]

Originally Posted by Jackie

+1

How about a taking a fish from the ocean and put it on your dinner plate?
You eat it, you stress him once.
You keep it in your tank, for sure you stress him more than once.

LOL..
Nice 1.