Gfci ......

[StirCrazy]

ok so I don't know any person that died, from not having GFIs on there tank, but I do know a few expensive fish that have dies from not having it and I saw a post from one of our members about there light falling into the tank and staying energized which cooked a bunch of there corals and a few of there fish.

Steve

[fkshiu]

OK, how about this one.

I finish cleaning my external return pump. I notice a funny sound after I turn it back on. I poke my nose until its two inches away from the pump and start tapping at the impeller cover when all of a sudden - pssssssshhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

I get a face full of water and start flailing around like a decapitated chicken trying to stop the water. I instinctively reach around to the power bars to turn off the pump. I finally do so after a lot of groping. It's only then do I realize that I am in a very large puddle of saltwater surrounded by a rat's nest of electrical wiring and appliances. The power bars are soaked, I am soaked, everything is soaked. Then I begin to notice the silence. Everything's off. Why? Because the GFCI has tripped exactly as it was supposed to.

The impeller cover wasn't properly seated so when I tapped at it, it gave way.

I'm not dead, but there's a chance I wouldn't be typing this had it not been for that $10 GFCI outlet.

[RR37]

Originally Posted by whatcaneyedo

I've been shocked and I know a few other who have as well. I also know of 5 local aquarium caused fires that could have been prevented with GFCIs... the most recent one was this week at our LFS.

Im pretty sure a GFI or Ci won't do much to prevent fire. The detect a ground fault and then interrupt the the hot and neutral. A fuse would however prevent a fire, not the GFI.

[globaldesigns]

Originally Posted by RR37

Im pretty sure a GFI or Ci won't do much to prevent fire. The detect a ground fault and then interrupt the the hot and neutral. A fuse would however prevent a fire, not the GFI.

I would disagree with that, if you saw my powerbar after the aftermath, it was black from sparking and flame... It can happen.

If a GFI trips before anything can happen, then voila it DOES prevent a possible fire.

for the cost of themn (they are cheap), don't take the chance!

[RR37]

I'm am going to strongly disagree with you. I am also going to strongly disagree with the idea that Gfi's can and will prevent fire. It's a false sense of security. They are not capable of detecting an arc ( fire causing electrical condition ) the are only capable of detecting an inaproprriate ground location Ie me you and out tank kitchen sink etc. I use them on my aquarium to prevent electricition. Spraying water on a gfi will not turn the circuit off until that same circuit is grounded incorrectly, which will end up being the moment you touch it or a common conductor grounds it out. Electrical fires are caused by heat, not water more specifically a ground. ( which is all a gfi has been designed to look for ) look into a afci they are out there too.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by RR37

I'm am going to strongly disagree with you. I am also going to strongly disagree with the idea that Gfi's can and will prevent fire. It's a false sense of security. They are not capable of detecting an arc ( fire causing electrical condition ) the are only capable of detecting an inaproprriate ground location Ie me you and out tank kitchen sink etc. I use them on my aquarium to prevent electricition. Spraying water on a gfi will not turn the circuit off until that same circuit is grounded incorrectly, which will end up being the moment you touch it or a common conductor grounds it out. Electrical fires are caused by heat, not water more specifically a ground. ( which is all a gfi has been designed to look for ) look into a afci they are out there too.

+1

GFI will prevent shocks only. arc fault or your breaker will prevent fires.

Steve

[globaldesigns]

Originally Posted by RR37

I'm am going to strongly disagree with you. I am also going to strongly disagree with the idea that Gfi's can and will prevent fire. It's a false sense of security. They are not capable of detecting an arc ( fire causing electrical condition ) the are only capable of detecting an inaproprriate ground location Ie me you and out tank kitchen sink etc. I use them on my aquarium to prevent electricition. Spraying water on a gfi will not turn the circuit off until that same circuit is grounded incorrectly, which will end up being the moment you touch it or a common conductor grounds it out. Electrical fires are caused by heat, not water more specifically a ground. ( which is all a gfi has been designed to look for ) look into a afci they are out there too.

Well we are all entitled to our opinions. So I will respect yours... but what happened to me, tells me a different story, before I had the GFI. Then please explain all the burnt/melted plastic and black burnt stuff on my power bar after my incident (this would indicate heat in my opinion). I would like to know your explanation. I don't claim to be an electrician.

I do agree, GFI means ground fault interrupter... I think more is being read into what I am saying, but anything can happen before it trips! And if you don't have one, well then what I explained prior can happen.

So in regards to false sense of security, I think it is just an extra measure, it can't hurt. In the grande scheme of things, it is a small investment for this "small sense of security".

I have 2 of them and glad I do.

[RR37]

Originally Posted by globaldesigns

Well we are all entitled to our opinions. So I will respect yours... but what happened to me, tells me a different story, before I had the GFI. Then please explain all the burnt/melted plastic and black burnt stuff on my power bar after my incident (this would indicate heat in my opinion). I would like to know your explanation. I don't claim to be an electrician.


So in regards to false sense of security, I think it is just an extra measure, it can't hurt. In the grande scheme of things, it is a small investment for this "small sense of security".

I have 2 of them and glad I do.

I think you missed the point,

GFI = GOOD

AFCI or FUSE = GOOD

Using both = DOUBLE GOOD

Not knocking a GFCI I think the are a necessity. Anyone not having one should think about getting one. While you are doing the GFI, look into fusing your system somehow. Claiming they will prevent fire is a false sense of security, A GFI will prevent unwanted shock and electrocution, seeing as that is all they were designed to do. ( In a situation where a fault in grounding is present )

There are any number of reasons why your power-strip is charred, not having a surge protector, circuit overloading, missing internal circuit breaker, power strip daisy chaining, plugging addition items into the duplex outlet, repeated moisture damage, to name a few. In any event all of the things listed will go unnoticed by the GFI, they are only there for ground faults. Please do not attempt to inform people otherwise, your logic is flawed. Its not a matter of opinion, its a static right/wrong.

Don't mean to come off harsh. Just happens that way.

[whatcaneyedo]

I've personally had it happen as well were I've splashed a powerbar that was not plugged into a GFI outlet and watched it crackle and smoke before I shut it off. I have then had it happen again after I had installed the GFI outlets and they shut off immediately before anything else could happen. Even if stopping fires is not what they are intended to do you have to admit it can happen.

These are the 5 cases I mentioned to the best of my knowledge.
1. Water ran down a cord to the electrical socket behind the tank. Fire originates at electrical socket. The fire does enough damage to kill everything in the tank.
2. Previously overloaded timer presently being used to turn a 150W MH on and off spontaneously catches fire. The fire leaves some black scorch marks around the timer.
3. A powerbar sitting on the floor behind a tank subjected to a lot moisture and corrosion catches fire and leaves black scorch marks on the wall behind the tank.
4. The ballast blows (why? no one knows...) in a regular fluorescent light fixture above a tank. The fire does significant damage to the basement of the house, the aquarium glass explodes onto the floor.
5. Another regular florescent fixture hanging over a tank begins to smoke (moisture, corrosion, spray? I dont know). The smoke is significant and everything in the tank dies.

Based on this little information could none of these have been prevented with GFIs? In at least 3 of the 5 cases it was a combination of electricity+water=fire. If a GFI trips when electricity and water meet is it not conceivable that they would prevent a fire?

[Doug]

Originally Posted by RR37

I think you missed the point,

GFI = GOOD

AFCI or FUSE = GOOD

Using both = DOUBLE GOOD

Not knocking a GFCI I think the are a necessity. Anyone not having one should think about getting one. While you are doing the GFI, look into fusing your system somehow. Claiming they will prevent fire is a false sense of security, A GFI will prevent unwanted shock and electrocution, seeing as that is all they were designed to do. ( In a situation where a fault in grounding is present )

There are any number of reasons why your power-strip is charred, not having a surge protector, circuit overloading, missing internal circuit breaker, power strip daisy chaining, plugging addition items into the duplex outlet, repeated moisture damage, to name a few. In any event all of the things listed will go unnoticed by the GFI, they are only there for ground faults. Please do not attempt to inform people otherwise, your logic is flawed. Its not a matter of opinion, its a static right/wrong.

Don't mean to come off harsh. Just happens that way.

AFCI cant run everything though, as it wont fire halides.