Red Bug Treatment Journal

PoonTang · #1 04-26-2010, 04:37 AM

I too suspect that i have the dreaded little buggers but have yet to have a visual confirmation. I got some interceptor and have been doing a bunch of reading. Here is the info that I am going to go with. You can go with a dose as high as 23mg per 100g but far less is actually needed. I was going to personally going to go with 1/2 a pill. Shut off carbon and submerge skimmer air intake but keep it running. 24 hours later start up skimmer and carbon. Dont worry about a WC but it wont hurt. You must repeat the entire thing around 6-7 days later but 95% of the people report success after the first dose but there is always that chance. Some people do a third dose. Their Life cycle is as of yet unknown although it is thought to be 4 days and that they dont lay eggs.

Stones · #2 04-26-2010, 06:24 AM

It isn't necessary to dose with interceptor more than once, so long as you use the correct dosage.

When most of the literature on red bugs was originally posted, very little was known about their life cycle. Since then, it has been found that red bugs are live bearers and do not have an egg or larval stage that could have been resistant to milbemycin oxime, the active ingredient in Interceptor. It was only suggested to do a 2nd and 3rd treatment with interceptor in order to kill off the 2nd generation of red bugs that could have possibly hatched after the initial treatment. Since we now know that red bugs do not go through such a stage in life, one good treatment with interceptor is enough to wipe them out of your reef.

Expect to loose 99% of your pod population along with all of your acro crabs, sally light foots, and emerald crabs. Hermit crabs are not true crabs and as such are not effected by the interceptor. Other inverts such as cleaner shrimps, peppermints, snails, and urchins should all be fine as well as the sea hare. If you'd feel better removing the sea hare due to their known toxicity upon death, it probably wouldn't hurt.

Hope the info helps.

christyf5 · #3 04-26-2010, 03:23 PM

How much carbon would be required to remove the Interceptor dose?

between the 25% waterchange and running carbon, most of the interceptor that will be effective will be removed and subsequent waterchanges will finish it off.

- Will the brittle starfish survive the Interceptor? (my reading says he will probably survive)

I'd give him a 50/50 chance. I've lost fromia starfish from the treatment, not sure about the brittle stars. Personally, I'd remove him.

- Will the conchs, Seahare, and urchin be ok?

Conchs and urchin yes, not sure about the seahare, I'd remove him if he's easy enough to catch.

- Will my RBTAs, clams, and Gorgonians be ok with the Interceptor? (my reading says yes)

Yes

- Is this the same dosage everyone else has had success with?

the 23mg tablet are the best bang for your buck. Don't worry about exact dosage, I used about 3/4 of a pill for 220 gal and a half pill for 100 gal. Basically whatever I have left after using little bits of the pill to treat 1-2 gallons for frags. Eric Borneman treated with up to 10x more than DustinDortons dosage with full success.

- Am I missing anything?

Not missing but suggestions. You likely won't have to do a second treatment if you treat longer. I run my treatments between 8 and 12 hours then carbon and waterchange. I try to do the largest waterchange that I can possibly do. The PE you'll see afterwards is pretty incredible and you'll wonder why you didn't notice how bad it was previously

Don't forget to keep your skimmer running and submerge the air intake.

Great info Stones!! I had printed out most of Eric Bornemans website but lost it and his website is done now, sadly.

saltynuts · #4 04-26-2010, 03:28 PM

good thread.

Myka · #5 04-26-2010, 03:48 PM

New plan of attack...

I'm going to bump up the dose a little bit, but not as much as some of you guys on here have used. I will grind up the tablet, and dose 4 Salifert spoonfuls which should be enough to treat ~130 gallons.

Day 1 - Remove carbon. Submerse the air intake off on the skimmer. Add Interceptor. Wait 10 hours. Do 25% water change. Add fresh carbon, turn skimmer air back on. [Tank is due for a water change anyway.]

Day 5 - Remove carbon. Submerse air intake on skimmer. Add 2nd dose. Wait 10 hours. Do 25% water change. Add fresh carbon, turn skimmer air back on.

***First dose is going in in an hour.***

christyf5 · #6 04-26-2010, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myka

New plan of attack...

I'm going to bump up the dose a little bit, but not as much as some of you guys on here have used. I will grind up the tablet, and dose 4 Salifert spoonfuls which should be enough to treat ~130 gallons.

Day 1 - Remove carbon. Submerse the air intake off on the skimmer. Add Interceptor. Wait 10 hours. Do 25% water change. Add fresh carbon, turn skimmer air back on. [Tank is due for a water change anyway.]

Day 5 - Remove carbon. Submerse air intake on skimmer. Add 2nd dose. Wait 10 hours. Do 25% water change. Add fresh carbon, turn skimmer air back on.

***First dose is going in in an hour.***

So if you have removed inverts and are worried about putting them back in, you could also change out the carbon 24h after the treatment. I used to do that but am pretty lazy with my interceptor treatments now (I didn't even bother with the WC on the last one until my regular waterchange day 3 days later).

Oh and good luck, likely you'll be more stressed than any of your tank inhabitants

I know I always was at the beginning.

Myka · #7 04-26-2010, 04:16 PM

Thanks Christy! I didn't notice the red bugs until the frags were already in the TMCC so I didn't have much choice. I find TMCC on its own is often quite rough on the corals. The frags were in such a small container that it only would have taken a couple of them to start sloughing flesh enough to pollute the little container enough to kill off the rest.

In the future I will have a kind of QT for SPS frags...I am setting up a small Zoa/Paly tank (inc some LPS), so it will work well to house new SPS frags since there will be nothing in that tank they can contaminate.

Myka · #8 04-26-2010, 04:39 PM

[vent]I am SO frustrated!!! I'm leaving out of province in a week and won't be back until May long weekend. Now I have to deal with this stupid crap, plus I have to hook up the Osmolator and dosing pumps, and I don't have time!!!!!!!!

So...now I can't find that last tablet of Interceptor that I have. I had it in my hand a week ago. The TMCC is back where it's supposed to be, but not the Interceptor. Grrrr!!! Now I gotta go find a vet because none of the reef stores are open on Monday around here. Now my fish room is a mess because I turned it upside down looking for that weeny little tablet. This tank has really been picking my butt lately.

Oh for hell.

[/vent]

Myka · #9 04-26-2010, 03:42 PM

Thanks for your info Christy. There is no way I can catch the brittle starfish. Even when I tore my tank apart to move it, I couldn't pry him out of the rock. So he's going to have to tough it out. I'm not entirely sure I will be able to get the Emerald crabs out either. I have read some journals that people have Seahares that do fine with the treatment, so I'm going to leave him in there. The more I think about it, I think I might just treat the tank as is...PITA to set up a tank just for a couple Emeralds that I might not even be able to catch. The little turds don't even eat bubble algae.

I have read other people leaving the treatment longer than 6 hours, so I think I'm going to aim for 10 hours, but I will watch the tank closely for signs of stress. Would be nice to have some pods at the end of this.

I was more worried about the carbon removing the Interceptor so it would be safe to put the inverts back. Now I'm not so worried...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stones

It isn't necessary to dose with interceptor more than once, so long as you use the correct dosage.

When most of the literature on red bugs was originally posted, very little was known about their life cycle. Since then, it has been found that red bugs are live bearers and do not have an egg or larval stage that could have been resistant to milbemycin oxime...

Expect to loose 99% of your pod population along with all of your acro crabs, sally light foots, and emerald crabs. Hermit crabs are not true crabs and as such are not effected by the interceptor. Other inverts such as cleaner shrimps, peppermints, snails, and urchins should all be fine as well as the sea hare. If you'd feel better removing the sea hare due to their known toxicity upon death, it probably wouldn't hurt.

Hope the info helps.

Thanks for the info, but it does go against several other red bug treatment journals I have read. It seems other people are sometimes having troubles with only one treatment even though it seems they are using the correct dosage. I'm going to do two doses just to be safe, I'm beyond PO'd at having to do this to begin with, and killing off my pod population is not something I want to do again.

Also, I have read many journals that report both hermits and cleaner shrimp to die from the treatment, but it seems blood shrimp and Peppermints are ok (weird). Lots of people report emerald crabs dying as well as nuisance crabs in the reef that they didn't know were there. Haha!

christyf5 · #10 04-26-2010, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myka

Thanks for your info Christy. There is no way I can catch the brittle starfish. Even when I tore my tank apart to move it, I couldn't pry him out of the rock. So he's going to have to tough it out. I'm not entirely sure I will be able to get the Emerald crabs out either. I have read some journals that people have Seahares that do fine with the treatment, so I'm going to leave him in there. The more I think about it, I think I might just treat the tank as is...PITA to set up a tank just for a couple Emeralds that I might not even be able to catch. The little turds don't even eat bubble algae.

I have read other people leaving the treatment longer than 6 hours, so I think I'm going to aim for 10 hours, but I will watch the tank closely for signs of stress. Would be nice to have some pods at the end of this.

I didn't see the massive reduction in pods that others have seen. I'd say I probably lost about 40-50%. There were a few dead ones floating around the tank but the overflow was still crawling with them. It certainly didn't worry me enough to do the treatment again (and again, I gotta be more vigilant and stop being so lazy about prophylactically treating frags, I got hit again just last week, lucky I caught it though).

Oh and I forgot to mention, I think the TMPCC/interceptor combo is prety hard on frags. I picked up a frag last thursday, it was covered, I thought I could get away with a double dose (read it somewhere, didn't work) as it was late and I didn't have time to be farting around with a 1hour interceptor treatment.. Then I figured I would just interceptor the frag in the bag overnight. In the morning it was looking pretty rough, bleached out and thin tissue in some places. I've never had problems treating with either TMPCC or interceptor alone before but I think the combo is not a good idea. The frag is slowly coming around but not a happy camper (and neither am I, next time I'll know to just suck it up and use interceptor).