Swine Flu/H1N1 Vaccination - Yes or No?

[intarsiabox]

Last year in Edmonton there were 21 traffic fatalities. There is about 1 million people in the greater Edmonton area so statistically there is only about a 21 in a million chance of dying in a car accident here. Should I take out the car seats for my 2 girls and stop making them wear seat belts? Statistics aren't very comforting if you or a loved one is one of the 21. As a parent it is my responsibility to do everything I can to protect my family and if putting on a seat belt lessens the risk to 1 in million then I will do it. I personaly would never base a decision on statistics because if you are the unlucky one then the statistical rate is 1:1.

[pinhead]

I also finding this discussion becoming tedious so I think this will be my last contribution. It is truly unfortunate that there are people who continue to hold views in light of evidence to the contrary. A few last comments.

Originally Posted by FitoPharmer

i would just like to see more science and studies, and i don't mind looking for them if i'm told where or what to look for.

This how you do journal research in science. There is a tool called MEDLINE (Medical Literature Analysis and Retrieval System) which allows you to do a search in about 5000 scientific journals.

Searching H1N1 vaccine, I get 1217 journal references for h1n1 vaccine - 46 for the month of October alone. You would then have to go to a university biomedical library to read these articles as they are subscription based and very few are available for free.

Other searches yield about 3500 references for H1N1 and 3000 for H5N1 on which the Arepanrix vaccine was based upon.

Originally Posted by FitoPharmer

what problems you have with the side effect portion of GSK's own product fact sheet for the vaccine?

This are the risks directly from the vaccines' patient information sheet.

Very common (may occur with more than 1 in 10 doses): Pain at the injection site, Headache, Fatigue, Redness or swelling at the injection site, Shivering, Sweating, Aching muscles, joint pain
Common (may occur with up to 1 in 10 doses):Reactions at the injection site such as bruising, itching and warmth, Fever, Swollen lympth nodes, Feeling sick, diarrhea
Uncommon (may occur with up to 1 in 100 doses): Dizziness, Generally feeling unwell, Unusual weakness, Vomiting, stomach pain, uncomfortable feeling in the stomach or belching after eating, ability to sleep, Tingling or numbness of the hands or feet, Shortness of breath, Pain in the chest, Itching, rash, Pain in the back or neck, stiffness in the muscles, muscle spasms, pain in extremity such as leg or hand
Rare (may occur with up to 1 in 1000 doses): Allergic reactions leading to a dangerous decrease of blood pressure, which, if untreated, may lead to shock. Doctors are aware of this possibility and have emergency treatment available for use in such cases, Fits, Severe stabbing or throbbing pain along one or more nerves, Low blood platelet count which can result in bleeding or bruising
Very Rare (may occur with up to 1 in 10,000 doses): Vasculitis (inflammation of the blood vessels which can cause skin rashes, joint pain and kidney problems), Neurological disorders such as encephalomyelitis (inflammation of the central nervous system), neuritis (inflammation of nerves) and a type of paralysis known a Guillain-Barré Syndrome

Most of the side effects are what you would expect with any vaccination - pain, bruising and swelling. I would expect the list of rare side effects is there for legal reasons so someone could not say they were uninformed.

For comparison, here is a list of possible side effects from the information sheet for Alka Seltzer: nausea, vomiting, ringing in ears, diminished hearing, confusion, agitation, lethargy, fever, coma, respiratory alkalosis, metabolic acidosis, convulsions, pulmonary edema, cardiovascular collapse.


One last word on Aspartame. A medline search of 111 references regarding Aspartame toxicity gives us the publicly accessible reference. Note the last line in the abstract - Aspartame is safe!

Crit Rev Toxicol. 2007;37(8):629-727.

Aspartame: a safety evaluation based on current use levels, regulations, and toxicological and epidemiological studies.
Magnuson BA, Burdock GA, Doull J, Kroes RM, Marsh GM, Pariza MW, Spencer PS, Waddell WJ, Walker R, Williams GM.

Burdock Group, Washington, DC, USA. bmagnuso@umd.edu

Aspartame is a methyl ester of a dipeptide used as a synthetic nonnutritive sweetener in over 90 countries worldwide in over 6000 products. The purpose of this investigation was to review the scientific literature on the absorption and metabolism, the current consumption levels worldwide, the toxicology, and recent epidemiological studies on aspartame. Current use levels of aspartame, even by high users in special subgroups, remains well below the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and European Food Safety Authority established acceptable daily intake levels of 50 and 40 mg/kg bw/day, respectively. Consumption of large doses of aspartame in a single bolus dose will have an effect on some biochemical parameters, including plasma amino acid levels and brain neurotransmitter levels. The rise in plasma levels of phenylalanine and aspartic acid following administration of aspartame at doses less than or equal to 50 mg/kg bw do not exceed those observed postprandially. Acute, subacute and chronic toxicity studies with aspartame, and its decomposition products, conducted in mice, rats, hamsters and dogs have consistently found no adverse effect of aspartame with doses up to at least 4000 mg/kg bw/day. Critical review of all carcinogenicity studies conducted on aspartame found no credible evidence that aspartame is carcinogenic. The data from the extensive investigations into the possibility of neurotoxic effects of aspartame, in general, do not support the hypothesis that aspartame in the human diet will affect nervous system function, learning or behavior. Epidemiological studies on aspartame include several case-control studies and one well-conducted prospective epidemiological study with a large cohort, in which the consumption of aspartame was measured. The studies provide no evidence to support an association between aspartame and cancer in any tissue. The weight of existing evidence is that aspartame is safe at current levels of consumption as a nonnutritive sweetener.

[FitoPharmer]

Originally Posted by intarsiabox

If everyone felt like you your "victemless crime" would hurt millions of people. I used to work in accounting and received lots of government garnishment orders for people avoiding taxes, not one went to jail they just had to start paying what they owed like every other Canadian. You state it as a fact that people in Canada are jailed "all the time" for not paying taxes. Lets see some back-up of this, what percentage of tax evaders get sent to jail instead of having to pay.

i dont know the % and personally i don't care when it comes to taking peoples freedoms there is no 99.9% of the time is good enough. but that's a personal belief. however, here is the facts from my good pals at CRA
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/nwsrm/rlss/...80123-eng.html
"26 offenders to more than 37 years in prison. Sentences for those who were ordered to serve jail time for tax-related offenses ranged from 1 month to 3 years."
owch, personally i don't think that's worth it. no one should be jailed for tax evasion considering no harm was technically done.

Originally Posted by intarsiabox

You said so yourself it costs money to put these people in jail and the gov't wants the money not more debt load, your claim makes no sense.

since your an a accountant i'm sure how you can see these costs can add up.
(37 years jail time) X ($25,000 per year to jail an inmate.)= $925,000 / (26 people imprisoned) = ~35,000 per person. what amount of tax collection from these people will justify their imprisonment to you?

Originally Posted by intarsiabox

If you feel things are so wrong and corrupt here, the government is out to get you and things are better elsewhere, then Canada has a right that every Canadian is entitled to, the right to leave.

i feel that our government has not been looking out for citizens like it should for a long time. what makes you think i would leave such a beautiful country, , what it stands for, and our constitution / bill of rights?. do you believe in freedom of speech and do you think that is part of what Canada is all about?
there is nothing wrong with question income taxes. especially since direct taxation by the federal government used to be unlawful , again.... history. before ww1, no income tax, after ww1 income tax. basic high school history at that.

Originally Posted by intarsiabox

Just the fact that we can post messages like this without punishment should tell you something. No ones forcing anybody to take the H1N1 vaccine it is personal CHOICE not a requirement.

i agree our freedom of speech is intact and a wonderful thing. it however it being intact today could mean many things though.
i never said or remember anyone who said the h1n1 vaccine is a requirement... that definition/example was given to help illustrate how the government doesn't really care about the welfare of its people not suggest they are willing to extort us to take vaccines.

Originally Posted by intarsiabox

If you don't want the shot then don't get it, it's that simple.

i won't. just like i wont stop with the truth bullets.

[VFX]

This thread is becoming a bit pointless with all the bickering & the tangents in which some people are headed.

The point is a gathering of thoughts & opinions on the H1N1 Virus & it's associated Vaccines.

Scientific data, conspiracy theories, news reports, personal experiences count for more than arguments about tax collection & not so subtle side swipes & insults towards each other.

I obviously have no moderator authority here, but I did start this thread & politely ask that it stays on topic so it can remain a useful point of info/interest, and I also ask that it remains friendly.

Nobody wants anything bad to happen to any of us or our loved ones, hence the big debate. But knocking someone else's beliefs with insults isn't nice whether it's religion, politics or swine flu we're talking about.

Please keep an open mind & be safe.

Thanks.

Sermon over!

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