Why do my new HQI bulbs trip my GFCI (Somewhat urgent)

cwatkins · #1 12-10-2011, 04:45 AM

Hi All,

There's some urgency to this issue as I'm going out of town in a week, and I don't want the house sitters to have to worry about my tank crashing because of this.

So the story goes...

I want to switch to LED in the new year, so I've gone with the inexpensive Artemis Ebay bulbs (MH 250W DE) in the mean time. And all of a sudden I have these crazy GFCI problems now when the Halides are running.

I have 2 GFCI's behind my tank. One is dedicated, and the other is shared with the rest of the room's plugs. Both exhibit this problem.

After replacing my Pheonix 14K bulbs with the Artemis bulbs that everyone loves (I like them), my GFCI has been randomly tripping. Three times today already.

When it trips it takes out the whole controller including the return pump and all lighting.

Why would changing the bulbs be causing a GFCI to trip? I may have even narrowed it down to only one of my lights. I ran 1 side with Artemis and the other had the existing Pheonix bulb, and it ran okay for a week. And now that both are running Artemis, all hell is breaking loose.

And I don't think it's the bulb as I've tried 2 different Artemis bulbs and they both exhibit the same issue.

My Ballast is: Sunlight Supply Galaxy Electronic Metal Halide Ballast (2 x 250 Watt)

Any tips or suggestions would be appreciated!

Worse case I can just put both Pheonix bulbs while I'm away.

Dr_Hicks · #2 12-10-2011, 04:50 AM

I don't know why it's tripping it; however if you still have your old bulbs you might be best to install them back in the fixture until you are back home from holiday, then you can figure out why the new bulbs are tripping your GFI.

It would really suck to suffer a tank crash mate, I hope things work out for you

The Grizz · #3 12-10-2011, 04:52 AM

Is there any way to plug the lights into a power bar with a GFI type breaker to see if it happens? Did you try both GFI's with the troublesome fixture?

cwatkins · #4 12-10-2011, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Grizz

Is there any way to plug the lights into a power bar with a GFI type breaker to see if it happens? Did you try both GFI's with the troublesome fixture?

At first I thought I had a GFCI going faulty, so I switched the controller (Energy Bar 8) over to the other GFCI, and then the devices on the other one (power bar with Vortech power adapters, and reactor pumps, UV, etc) over to what I thought was the "bad" GFCI.

I wonder, could a poor connection with the bulb be causing this? Maybe they're not the perfect fit like the Pheonix bulbs, and could be arcing or something.

The funny thing is I experienced this issue weeks ago, and then one day one of my new Artemis bulbs died, so I put a pheonix back in while I waited for a replacement to be shipped out. And for that whole week everything was good.

And then this morning I put the newly replaced Artemis back in and all heck breaks out.

I think I'll have to maybe go with running the Pheonix bulbs while I'm away. The unfortunate thing is they're starting to grow cyano, so they're past their prime.

I wonder if I need to buy some reliable bulbs on Boxing day?

It's got to be one of these:

A. Bad socket or connection with the Artemis
B. Artemis runs differently which causes GFCI trip.

Before this whole issue, I've only ever had the GFCI trip once before and I'm sure that was because I dripped some water on the outlet while feeding.

P.S. I've resorted to using a paid monitoring service (30 day free trial though) to monitor my Apex controller web page. If the web page goes down, it calls my cell phone with an alert.

The Grizz · #5 12-10-2011, 05:30 AM

This is really weird, I have 4 of these bulbs running now & know of a lot of others running them too without issues.

What type of socket do you have in the fixture? Is it the push in type or the old style end prong type?

If it is the push in type do the ends of the bulb look parallel to each other? It does sound like a bulb / socket issue. Have you contacted the supplier to see if he might have an idea what is causing the issue?

cwatkins · #6 12-10-2011, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Grizz

This is really weird, I have 4 of these bulbs running now & know of a lot of others running them too without issues.

What type of socket do you have in the fixture? Is it the push in type or the old style end prong type?

If it is the push in type do the ends of the bulb look parallel to each other? It does sound like a bulb / socket issue. Have you contacted the supplier to see if he might have an idea what is causing the issue?

The fixture used to be dual 150W and I replaced the sockets/wiring/ballast with 250W, but it's been running for well over a year with the Pheonix bulbs and no issues. Sockets are the new push in kind. So I just push both ends of the bulb in and it locks in by pressure I believe.

I can email the ebay seller. I think it's the same one everyone here uses from Ontario.

pirate · #7 12-10-2011, 08:10 AM

Have you tried swapping the 2 new bulbs around and see if it follows the bulb? How old is the GFI I know that as they age they can do some strange things.
You have said that you replaced all the parts in the light to a 250w sys, how old are the ballast and igintors? Could one of them be going bad?
Does it trip the GFI if you only use the light that you think is bad ( 1 at a time)?
The only difference that I can think of between bulbs is maybe the start up power that is required,and with the 2 new ones it is too much for the breaker. I know that running GFI is imporatant but have you run a extension cord from another plug that is not protected, except by the house breaker and see if it does the same? Perhaps you need a larger GFI breaker.

daniella3d · #8 12-10-2011, 01:05 PM

If there was a poor connection with the bulb you would see the bulb shutting down from time to time no? I don't know.

I had this problem with the artemis bulb, and it shut down a few times but I was simply restarting it. I would put back the old bulb as Phoenix are good for more than a year and see if you still have these problems. If the problems are gone then it's clear that it's the artemis bulb. I know some people had to use a bit of sandpaper on the contact to even make the artemis bulb fire.

At least put it back until you return from your trip and you can plug it without GFCI while you are away. I never use this and my MH is plugged directly in the power outlet.

I too have a Coralife Aqualite pro fixture. I had a problem with the artemis bulb about 3 to 4 times shutting down during one year. This never hapened with the Phoenix.

When I leave I put a web cam on my tank so that I can check if the light did fire, if the water level is good, if the fish are alive and if the skimmer is working (hang on tank). This give me a bit of peace of mind. Recently it is my contrôler that bugger, and it went into shut down mode, so nothing was working...no heating, no pump, nothing. Good think I cought it in time because the temperature in the house is about 72F and without pumps my coral would have died. Now I am scared to leave and trust that contrôler.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwatkins

At first I thought I had a GFCI going faulty, so I switched the controller (Energy Bar 8) over to the other GFCI, and then the devices on the other one (power bar with Vortech power adapters, and reactor pumps, UV, etc) over to what I thought was the "bad" GFCI.

I wonder, could a poor connection with the bulb be causing this? Maybe they're not the perfect fit like the Pheonix bulbs, and could be arcing or something.

The funny thing is I experienced this issue weeks ago, and then one day one of my new Artemis bulbs died, so I put a pheonix back in while I waited for a replacement to be shipped out. And for that whole week everything was good.

And then this morning I put the newly replaced Artemis back in and all heck breaks out.

I think I'll have to maybe go with running the Pheonix bulbs while I'm away. The unfortunate thing is they're starting to grow cyano, so they're past their prime.

I wonder if I need to buy some reliable bulbs on Boxing day?

It's got to be one of these:

A. Bad socket or connection with the Artemis
B. Artemis runs differently which causes GFCI trip.

Before this whole issue, I've only ever had the GFCI trip once before and I'm sure that was because I dripped some water on the outlet while feeding.

P.S. I've resorted to using a paid monitoring service (30 day free trial though) to monitor my Apex controller web page. If the web page goes down, it calls my cell phone with an alert.

Lampshade · #9 12-10-2011, 02:32 PM

+1 on the webcam. check out yawcam. free program, super easy to use. Just make a free google sites page that is private and insert the link to your webcam image or stream if you want. I love it. I have my webcam setup, post all my aquarium info from my controller, and the site is locked. Piece of mind while I sit here at work wondering if my updated arduino program is actually going to turn on my lights in 2 hours *fingers crossed* haha.

As for the actual problem on the GFCI, that's a weird one. GFCI has to have "leaking" power to trip, so something is either shorting to ground, there is too much inductance/capacitance in the circuit. Also, is it a GFCI Breaker? or outlet? An outlet doesn't protect against over-current, so that could help eliminate the overloading issue if that's the case. Also, are you plugged into a surge protector? that could be the problem as well since cheap ones can shunt power surges to ground causing the GFCI to trip. A highly inductive load like the transformer being energized can cause power surges that may do this.

daniella3d · #10 12-10-2011, 03:58 PM

That's the program I use and I love it. Free and powerfull. Yawcam can also show the outside link so it's easy to copy and past it into a web page. I guess you have a web module that post your aquarium info? what contrôleur is it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lampshade

+1 on the webcam. check out yawcam. free program, super easy to use. Just make a free google sites page that is private and insert the link to your webcam image or stream if you want. I love it. I have my webcam setup, post all my aquarium info from my controller, and the site is locked. Piece of mind while I sit here at work wondering if my updated arduino program is actually going to turn on my lights in 2 hours *fingers crossed* haha.

As for the actual problem on the GFCI, that's a weird one. GFCI has to have "leaking" power to trip, so something is either shorting to ground, there is too much inductance/capacitance in the circuit. Also, is it a GFCI Breaker? or outlet? An outlet doesn't protect against over-current, so that could help eliminate the overloading issue if that's the case. Also, are you plugged into a surge protector? that could be the problem as well since cheap ones can shunt power surges to ground causing the GFCI to trip. A highly inductive load like the transformer being energized can cause power surges that may do this.