lighting for dummies 101

[christyf5]

Ok when it comes to lighting I have to admit, I'm a girl, I don't get it [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] I'm thinking about upgrading my lighting and a guy in the buy and sell has a really sweet deal on a canopy for a 48G with sockets for VHO and MH plus 2 MH ballasts and bulbs. So my question is since he isn't providing a ballast for the VHO part of the setup do I have to go out and get one of those super $$ ice cap ones (and do they work with any end caps??)or can I find one at Home Depot. My first thought would be, no, because then everybody would be buying them from there and the LFS wouldn't be making a heck of alot of money on them. But part of me really wants someone to say yes because after seeing the price of them I am cringing. Good think I'm made of money [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]

Thanks
Christy

[reefburnaby]

Hello Christy,

Lighting...

So, you have a canopy and you have VHO sockets and no ballast for VHO.

VHO sockets are high temperature version of the NO socket. Regardless, if you aren't sure and they look really bad...get it replaced. VHO sockets are about $16 at J&L -- you can get them elsewhere too (like a lighting store).

You need a VHO ballast -- which you can find in Home Depot, Acklands, and other lighting equipment store. They cost about $50 to $60 -- and it can be done. You need a rapid start ballast for a F48T12/VHO if it is a 4 foot VHO tube. They need to be special ordered since nobody really uses these VHOs in new commercial installations.

Icecap...they are neat little suckers. Supposely, you can use NO tubes and make them as bright as VHO tubes. Also, their soft start feature enhances the lifetime of the tubes. They will run cooler and use less power for the same function as industrial VHO ballasts. If you can afford it...then just get it. Check if anybody is order stuff from the US and combine your order to save money. The main advantage of Icecap is that you can make NO tubes as bright as VHO.

Last option, is....forget about the VHOs and just use the MH. From what I have been told, if you use 10,000K MH, then you don't need actinics. If you don't mind a slight yellow cast, then 6500K will do.

I prefer the MH only method...it is simple and it is the easiest to do.

Safety Tip : MH bulbs are filled with high pressure gases. When you dispose of a MH bulb, wrap the bulb in a grocery bag or paper bag and then smash the glass bulb before disposing. Unlike incandescent bulbs, MH bulbs expode into thousands of glass bits when the bulb is broken. This will ensure that unsuspecting household members don't get injured or frightened by the expoding bulb.

Hope that helps.

- Victor.

[ 27 September 2001: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

[titus]

Hello christyf5,

My recommendation is to use IceCap ballast with a dimmer to control sunset/sunrise effect even if you have a MH system. This ensure the most ease on your animals. But yes, it does cost a heck of a lot more. But oh well..

Titus

[christyf5]

Hey thanks for the info guys. Another question though, how does the ice cap ballast make a NO bulb brighter?? Aren't they only supposed to have 40W max go through them?? Wouldn't that burn them out quicker? How much brighter do they get? As bright as a VHO? Why bother getting VHO bulbs then?

I guess that was more than one question eh? Nobody around here has the answers [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]

Christy [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[Troy F]

Christy the Icecap ballast just runs bulbs more efficiently thus getting the most out of the bulb. A N.O. bulb wouldn't put out the 110W of a VHO bulb but I've heard figures as high as 80W. I don't know if there are figures on par and lumens. Dana Riddle recently posted huge drop offs in par and lumens in the first month life of VHO so I'd assume this goes for flourescent as well.

You don't need VHO if you have MH. Get yourself a two bulb N.O. ballast for ~$15 and wire up the endcaps. Use two N.O. actinic bulbs on one timer and your MH on a second timer. Unless the ballasts are 175W I'd go with Iwasaki bulbs because replacing bulbs up here is expensive There is a 10000k 175W bulb that isn't too much more than the Iwasaki but you also have to consider bulb life.

[canadawest]

Hey Christy, if you do decide to go the VHO route, I also recommend the Icecap ballast. I use an Icecap 660 in my setup. It's true that it will run NO lamps at near VHO brightness. And you can have any combination of NO, VHO and even PC lamps on the same ballast. Just make sure the endcaps are VHO endcaps, and preferably the waterproof ones. New ones are expensive, but last forever.

When I first setup my lighting I used a pair of URI VHO lamps and a pair of $5 GE 6500K Ultra-Daylight NO lamps from Canadian Tire, as I didn't feel like spending the extra $80 on another pair of URI VHO lamps right away. When you look at the NO lamps next to the VHO lamps, you can barely tell a difference in brightness. And you've seen my tank, the corals didn't seem to mind.

For flexiblilty and reliability, the Icecap ballasts can't be beat. And like Titus mentioned, they are dimmable, but it's not necessary. For best cost/performance I would prefer the setup that Troy mentioned, 2 MH lamps with two NO actinics. You could always add the Icecap ballast later and upgrade the NO to VHO if you wanted more output.

[christyf5]

Man this is great! You guys know all this stuff! Ok so the MH setup is 2 Iwasaki 250 watt ballasts and 2 6500K bulbs. Now I thought this means that I have to stick with Iwasaki bulbs. I was looking at the price of the 10000K and man, I'm gonna have to get a second job to support this habit! At least I get the 6500K ones to start although I don't know how old they are. Its only a 48G tank and 18" deep so I don't need 10W/gal for my softies, unless I get into SPS which after making this purchase I am going to be broke for awhile. Thats good that I only need the NO actinics. I like the idea of getting something for only $15 in this business [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] This setup is not going to be used right away anyway, I still have to get a buttload of aragonite sand and at $50 a bag here plus needing more LR I need to wait and amass some fundage first. I'm just excited and making sure that I'm not just getting this because its a good deal (I'm one of those impulse buyer types).

Thanks
Christy

[canadawest]

Yeah, if you've got a dual 250W MH w/ 6500K lamps you will want the actinics not only to increase the spectrum available to the corals, but also tame down the yellowish appearance of the 6500K lamps. The up-side is that the 6500K lamps are VERY bright compared to higher K-rated lamps and an excellent representation of natural sunlight. A pair of NO actinics on a cheap Home Depot ballast would work fine, and you could upgrade to the Icecap and VHO actinics down to road if you wanted.

Did I mention I'm jealous?

[reefburnaby]

Hello,

The main difference between VHO, HO and NO (i.e. Very High Ouput (110W), High Output (80W) and Normal ouput (40W)) are the filaments at the end of the tubes. The VHO tubes have heavy duty filaments to handle the extra power. Everything else is the same (phosphor, glass tube and etc). However, VHO/HO/NO are designed to work for about 10000 hours. We only use them for ~2000 hours (i.e. 12 hours a day, for 6 months) - due to spectral output shifts. So, overstressing the NO filaments by 2x does not damage the tubes beyond repair since we only use 20% of the designed lifetime. In addition, their soft start mechanism in Icecap reduces stress on the filaments.

Difference between NO vs VHO....about double the light power (lumens) -- according to manufacturer's specs. 40W NO are around 4000-5000 lumens and VHO are around 9000 to 10000 lumens. 250W MH are around 20000 to 28000 lumens.

I didn't realize that a 10000K MH costs so much. Sorry....recommend 6500K MH only.

Any who...have fun shopping. Any of the ideas mentioned above will work and keep your corals happy (even just using MH 6500K and no actinics). Since you are using 250Wx2 lighting, whether to go with actinics/icecap/10000K/HD ballast is mostly visual impact. So, you can decide which direction to go at a future date.

- Victor.

[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

[Reefmaster]

oh boy, the old lighting dilemma. i've got more brains than i do money so i sometimes take a different approach.

christy, does the hood come with the 2 65k 250's? if so, i would use them for now. when you increase your corals, change bulbs. i wouldn't spend the extra money on high K bulbs. the 65K reportedly mimics natural mid-day sunshine in equatorial regions and provides the fullest spectrum range, and is alot cheaper than 10k. you're invited to come see our tank anytime and see the diff between 55K and 20K. (aside: if anybody wants a 400W 20K we can get em here in vic for about $85!!) my opinion is the 55k is a bit yellow and the 20k is too blue. we will be replacing the 55k with a 65k in the next two weeks so come then if you want.

i guess another option is to sell/trade one MH setup and use the $$ to setup your VHO. if it were me on that size tank i would sell/store one MH, sell the vho stuff that you would have, put in one or two actinics for $20, and buy a new coral.

as for the lamp spectrum shifting, i'm of the opinion that much of it is good marketing by manufacturer's/suppliers (ie 1 part truth, 9 parts BS). the recommended practice is to replace lamps every 12-18 months. why wouldn't this be temperature dependant? if i start with a 55k lamp, sure it'll shift below say 5k faster than a 65k would. but i expect a 10k and a 20k would take much longer to shift to 5k, however i have never read that these lamps should last much longer. i have access to the required equipment at the university to do the measurements and know for sure but haven't bothered. sorry, a bit long and off topic.

do you already have a hood, christy? if so, have you considered just buying the parts and putting it together? albrite here in vic has the ballasts and bases and its really easy to assemble it all after you've done it once. roughly stacks up to 200-225 including new lamp. if you decided to do that and need a hand, bring the hood&parts over and we'll put it together in the workshop. shane