Vertex Illumina

[BlueTang<3]

Looking at getting a 24" fixture for my frag tank. Anyone out there have one looking at getting user reviews on quality and how corals are reacting.

[monocus]

i am hoping to pick my 5' next week-i'll be playing around with my par meter and i'll see about posting the readings

[Wanderer]

I know that J&L had to raise their Illumina that they placed over their frag tank by a few inches and decrease the LEDs output to ~60% when they replaced the Halide unit that was there beforehand. Apparently it was to much light for some of the corals.

without optics on the LEDs, the spread of light is significantly more uniform.

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

without optics on the LEDs, the spread of light is significantly more uniform.

Sorry, have to disagree with that statement. With all the LEDs down the center output will be less uniform. You will have higher PAR directly below the LEDs and it will drop off front to back. Just because the primary optics have 120 degree spread does not actually mean that the output from an emitter is the same across the whole 120 degrees. There is a drop off in output off center from the emitter.

[Wanderer]

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...t=66180&page=4



Below is the non scientific Vertex Illumina SR 1200-200 PAR measurement taken with a Apogee Quantum Meter. My tank is 18" tall and the fixture is 6" above the surface.


White 100% - Blue 100% - Royal Blue 100%

759 about 5mm below the surface

484 On left frag rack

392 At top right coral colony

242 Center of Red Monti

227 Center of Clam

185 Front Elegance Coral

214 Bottom right middel of tank

148 Bottom rear of tank

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Ron99

Sorry, have to disagree with that statement. With all the LEDs down the center output will be less uniform. You will have higher PAR directly below the LEDs and it will drop off front to back. Just because the primary optics have 120 degree spread does not actually mean that the output from an emitter is the same across the whole 120 degrees. There is a drop off in output off center from the emitter.

You are entitled to your opinion, I disagree with yours... thats usually the way these things work

I'm a fan of the Illumina's other benefits like Easy expandability, control elements, smart design. Given the modularity of the LED pads, who says you won't be able to add optics if thats what you believe in?

It's just nice to see a smart design with an eye on the future.

as far as the price ... you don't get a Mercedes for the same price as a Kia

[Skimmerking]

Originally Posted by Ron99

Sorry, have to disagree with that statement. With all the LEDs down the center output will be less uniform. You will have higher PAR directly below the LEDs and it will drop off front to back. Just because the primary optics have 120 degree spread does not actually mean that the output from an emitter is the same across the whole 120 degrees. There is a drop off in output off center from the emitter.

Well Ron i love yoru light and would like to get the break down on where to get the stuff i would love to make one of these lights too for my 60" tank or will a 48" light work?
on a 60" tank
48" work?
How many LED's
what type pf optic's
Color how many blues
how many whites
what type of transformer?
what wire.

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...t=66180&page=4



Below is the non scientific Vertex Illumina SR 1200-200 PAR measurement taken with a Apogee Quantum Meter. My tank is 18" tall and the fixture is 6" above the surface.


White 100% - Blue 100% - Royal Blue 100%

759 about 5mm below the surface

484 On left frag rack

392 At top right coral colony

242 Center of Red Monti

227 Center of Clam

185 Front Elegance Coral

214 Bottom right middel of tank

148 Bottom rear of tank

Yes, saw this and as I mentioned in that thread I'm not overly impressed. Sorry. I achieve higher PAR numbers, especially deeper down into the tank using 60% fewer LEDS and therefore lower power consumption as well. My lighting is also far more even where I would have about the same PAR in the bottom middle of my tank as I will in the bottom front or back. He has 30% less PAR at the front of the tank then he does at the middle.

Originally Posted by Wanderer

You are entitled to your opinion, I disagree with yours... thats usually the way these things work

I'm a fan of the Illumina's other benefits like Easy expandability, control elements, smart design. Given the modularity of the LED pads, who says you won't be able to add optics if thats what you believe in?

It's just nice to see a smart design with an eye on the future.

as far as the price ... you don't get a Mercedes for the same price as a Kia

It's not an opinion, it's science. Here's a nice post on reefbuilders explaining it:

http://reefbuilders.com/2010/01/27/l...ics-explained/

I'll quote the important bit of it:

"But just because an LED is rated at 120 degrees, it doesn’t mean you get the lighting punch of the LED across the entire spectrum. Just like any other point of light source, it’s going to be stronger the closer you travel to the center. Along the central axis the LED emits 100 percent of its relative luminous intensity and will lose intensity the farther you move away from the central axis.

For simplicity’s sake, if a 100 lumen will produce 100 lumens of light at the center and a measurement taken 25 degrees from its central axis, the output of the LED will appear to drop to only 80 lumens. Continuing on the path away from the center axis a measurement taken 45 degrees off axis will yield only 40 lumens, and so on, until at 60 degrees, only 10 lumens or so are emitted."

Also, to add secondary optics they would have to completely redesign the fixture as the emitters would have to be spread out over the entire face of the fixture rather then clustered or you just compound the problem and you would have even higher intensity down the middle and even more drop off front to back. Simply adding secondary optics to this design is not the solution, it would compound the problem. I guess I just don't see it as a "smart" design. It could have used fewer LEDs, reducing the cost, being more energy efficient and likely had higher performance to boot.

It also has nothing to do with Mercedes vs. Kia. I am sure it is a well built unit and it does have some nice features but performance wise I can't justify the price. Would you buy a Mercedes that drove and performed no better then a Kia? I know I wouldn't. I would want a better feel, better acceleration, handling, ride, reliability, build quality etc. to justify the price premium.

Originally Posted by Skimmer King

Well Ron i love yoru light and would like to get the break down on where to get the stuff i would love to make one of these lights too for my 60" tank or will a 48" light work?
on a 60" tank
48" work?
How many LED's
what type pf optic's
Color how many blues
how many whites
what type of transformer?
what wire.

Don't want to hijack this thread away from the discussion of the Illumina fixture. Many of those details are in my build thread so check it out there. or PM me or start a new thread and we can discuss it there.

[Wanderer]

Ron, we get it. You hate the light. Your light is God’s gift to the aquarium world. Hurry and release it already

[Ron99]

Ahh, a well reasoned and argued response. Great to see

I was planning a product but given time constraints right now the project is on hold for the moment.

In any case, I don't hate the fixture, I just question the cost vs. performance equation. The whole point of these forums and this type of thread is to discuss the pros and cons of the equipment. The OP asked for feeback or opinions and I gave mine. In any case, I've put in my 2 cents backed by my own experience and research. If you've built and tested LED arrays or tested the Vertex fixture yourself then I'll be happy to accept your results too. I will also happily test a Vertex fixture in a more controlled fashion if somebody has one handy. In any case, I'll stop it here for now.