Two questions: L.R. and Calcium

[TANGOMAN]

When keeping live rock in the sump, where's the best location ? In the initial "compartment", agitated water, or elsewhere where water flow if slower ?
What's the most economical way to increase and maintain that Ca level ?

[Doug]

I have no compartments, so its everywhere in my sump. The cheapest method of maintaining calcium levels, is to drip kalk.

[Bob I]

Please don't hurt me West Coast reefers, but in Calgary the cheapest way (remember that is what you asked) is to simply use tap water. I did not say that was the "right" way. It is my way, and it works for me. I realise that is the best way to invite flames, but I had to do it. 8) 8)

[Aquattro]

Bob, I hope this doesn't hurt too much, but, Calgary tap water does not have enough Calcium to increase and maintain levels. I must admit you do have a large concentration of Ca in your tap water, but if a tank has 320ppm and dropping, adding tap water with a concetration of 270ppm isn't going to help.

[Bob I]

quote] adding tap water with a concetration of 270ppm isn't going to help.[/quote]

Interesting numbers. I measured it only once, and came up with 450 if I remember right. I once added some Ca on the advice of (Guess who?), and it promptly precipitated out. Leaving me with little white thingies (for lack of a better word) all over everything. So I'll just stand by my statement if that is alright by you. And, no I am not starting another Calgary water argument, nor will I participate in one, so this is it, no more.

[Aquattro]

Whoops, my mistake. The concentration of Ca ions in Calgary drinking water in 2001 was between 34-70 mg/l (ppm). If you measured 450 out of your tap, you need to figure out where your water is coming from!!!! :shock:

[Delphinus]

Oh, I'm going to hate myself for not keeping my mouth shut ...

But, Brad, if tap water measures out at, say 270, doesn't the salt mix itself also contribute, so if the freshwater is 270, and there is (say for example, since I don't know the #'s offhand) 80 ppm in the salt, won't the makeup water in fact be 350?

I always maintained a Ca value of 350, and an alk of 2.7 meq/L using freshwater with no additives, on my first reef tank (which is softies [mostly mushrooms actually], my ritteri anemone, fish and snails. Not really a high-calcium draw, except for my one purple acropora, which for some reason really excelled in those conditions. No other SPS really took off like that, which is what I would expect with numbers like that).

Of course, if maintaining an alk of 4.0, which would be necessary once there are more stoneys involved, and that calcium will drop pretty quickly, so some means of replenishing (beyond makeup water, or water changes) will be required.

As for "most economical" way .... Unfortunately I think that's a rather loaded question! It totally depends on what you're keeping, and what are your goals. For some, "adding nothing" will be the most economical for some; for others, kalk; for others, two-part additives such as Seachem Reef-Builder and Reef Calcium (or B-Ionic 2-parts), for yet others, calcium reactor.

I found with about 16 SPS frags in my other tank, the calcium and alkalinity draw had me dumping in so much additives that I figure my calcium reactor will pay for itself within two years. That's with frags, so I can only imagine there will be a lot higher draw once they start to form larger colonies.

[Delphinus]

What? 70 mg/l ??? No way. Last time I measured, I think I got a value of 400 (with the salt). I've never bothered to measure the freshwater by itself, hmmmm. Interesting experiment maybe?

Now, remember, there are two sources of water over here .... the Bow and the Elbow. I don't know what the Bow water is like (for the north part of the city), but, the Elbow is pretty much coming out of an old reef (limestone). That water is pretty hard, and is actually one of the reasons I went into reefing, instead of discus (which I really wanted to do at first instead), because I couldn't afford an RO at the time. So discus was outside of my means, but reefing wasn't! Weird, eh? Hmm, maybe not, I don't know.

[Aquattro]

Tony, I just dug up the WQ report for Calgary last year and those are the numbers it gave. I don't know what it would be after adding salt though, so 400+ is probably accurate.
Now, so as to avoid another one of these threads, the cheapest way to raise levels is CaCl fro Calcium and Baking soda for alk. Cheapest way to maintain is with kalk. Using any type of water for frequent changes costs salt. Salt is more than CaOH2.(if bought in bulk)

[StirCrazy]

:shock: I ain't saying nothing

Steve