Newbie looking for feedback

[Reef Pilot]

I have an even simpler ATO system. I have an RO/DI line going directly to my sump (no reservoir). It runs through a solenoid that comes on every 6 hours for 5 min. The sump level is controlled by a float valve. But as a final failsafe, I also have that double float switch that will not allow the solenoid to come on (and flow water) if that sump level is reached. Have had this set up for a several years, and even my primary float has never failed, let alone the backups.

I should mention though, that my RO/DI system is located upstairs near the kitchen sink (also use RO for household drinking) and has two pressurized (by household line pressure only) holding tanks. And my sump is located downstairs, so always have decent pressure and volume available there.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Sidius,

If your ATO float switch failed in the "open" position, wouldn't it keep pumping water from the 29g and then the float switch in the ATO reservoir would refill, so you'd overflow your display/sump and drop the salinity? Also, if the float switch in the reservoir fails, you have freshwater all over your main floor. Neither scenario would please your wife or you.

I really like Reef Pilot's setup for failsafe, foolproof ATO system, cause having it timed (5 min every 6 hours) will really minimize any excessive RODI water dumpage, either into the display/sump or your floors.

Another note I tell newbies is that reefing is as much an art as it is a science. We've all known or read about people with all the latest gizmos who can't keep corals/fish alive and others who use the most basic system and have thriving tanks. So if anybody tells you its "his/her way only", then runaway.There are a lot of ways to achieve success in reefing, but most of it involves spending the time to learn, to keep track of what your livestock are doing, and to having the patience to not rush and make sudden changes.

If you're into sps, what I've noticed is that low bioload is one common factor in many really nice sps setups. The owners chose a few fish they really like and didn't overload their systems with a lot of other fish. Low bioload keeps it easier to maintain high water quality. High bioload is possible, but means you have to keep on top of things. As others have mentioned, and you already seem to have found out from your research, Achilles & Powder Blues are very much ick magnets and can be real difficult for even experienced reefers to keep alive and ick-free. The Achilles comes from surface areas of the Hawaiian reef where there is extreme wave action and high oxygen levels (according to my friend who snorkeled all over the Islands). I think that is why so many die in captivity. Achilles generally like to be the only tang in the tank. Powder Blues and Achilles will break out with ick at the first inkling of stress, such as you look at them funny (ok a bit of an exaggeration but NOT much). Neither fish are really suitable as "first" fish for newbies.

I also really like your small daily water change idea. It's something I would do in a heart beat if I had the space, but I don't. My wife would kill me if I took up more space in our limited living area for an auto water change system.

Anthony

[Reef Pilot]

Originally Posted by SeaHorse_Fanatic

Sidius,

If your ATO float switch failed in the "open" position, wouldn't it keep pumping water from the 29g and then the float switch in the ATO reservoir would refill, so you'd overflow your display/sump and drop the salinity? Also, if the float switch in the reservoir fails, you have freshwater all over your main floor. Neither scenario would please your wife or you.

I really like Reef Pilot's setup for failsafe, foolproof ATO system, cause having it timed (5 min every 6 hours) will really minimize any excessive RODI water dumpage, either into the display/sump or your floors.
Anthony

With my set up, both the solenoid (in the open position) and the float valve would have to fail before I could have an overflow. While theoretically possible, the mathematical probability of that is very, very minuscule. Especially, since the solenoid is spring loaded to close, and needs power to open. The much more likely failure is for the solenoid failing to open, which of course can't produce a flood.

[Reef Pilot]

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

With my set up, both the solenoid (in the open position) and the float valve would have to fail before I could have an overflow. While theoretically possible, the mathematical probability of that is very, very minuscule. Especially, since the solenoid is spring loaded to close, and needs power to open. The much more likely failure is for the solenoid failing to open, which of course can't produce a flood.

And if you wanted to get really silly anal, you could have a double solenoid system, so if one does stay open the other one would still close the line. But then you would double the chance of a closed failure (much more probable).

These are not airliner systems where life (human that is) is at risk, so we have to be reasonable/practical with the cost of our risk mitigation.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

With my set up, both the solenoid (in the open position) and the float valve would have to fail before I could have an overflow. While theoretically possible, the mathematical probability of that is very, very minuscule. Especially, since the solenoid is spring loaded to close, and needs power to open. The much more likely failure is for the solenoid failing to open, which of course can't produce a flood.

I have the same setup. Has worked for 6 years without issue, other than solenoid failing closed about year 4, so simply replaced it.

[Sidius]

Ahhh yes I see what you guys are saying now about the ATO. It took me a minute to understand it but that would happen if it failed in the on position. I like that failsafe idea of only running the ATO for 5 minutes at a time at 6 hour intervals. My tank and cabinets are going in about 10-15' from my kitchen sink, and my friend who is an actual plumber is going to plumb the RO/DI, so hopefully I can achieve the correct pressure for something like that. It eliminates the need for a ATO reservoir at all and for that matter, I guess it would eliminate the need for the Tunze Osmolator at all which saves me money

I'm not going to lie, I'm a technology nerd and love what things can be achieved with the Apex so that is part of why I came up with some of these ideas. The auto-water change idea came from a combination of years of dealing with weekly massive water changes in my freshwater systems and reading the various studies that I've found on the web about the benefits of daily smaller changes. I will of course still have to clean detritus out from rocks, sand, etc. so I will need to do some manual/larger water changes from time to time.

In regards to the fish stock list. It's definitely not set in stone and very likely could change. The tangs would also not be the first fish I add to the tank. If I do decide to go that route, I would likely add those down the road after I've gained some experience in the difference between reef and freshwater husbandry and let the other inhabitants get settled. After years of dealing with aggressive and territorial African Cichlids that can stress each other out, I've grown accustom to researching each species endlessly before deciding to add them. I would never rush anything in any aquarium, let alone a reef system.

For those that are curious, I'm planning to use dry rock (with a few pieces of live rock) and taking my time to cook/cure them in rubbermaids first. Once ready, I'll add a CUC and then eventually a pair of clowns. Of course this is all a long ways away. I have a stand to build, a sump to finish and a lot of equipment to purchase before any of that that happens lol

[Sidius]

My next big question is what is everyone's opinion on various skimmer options...

Of course in a perfect world we'd all have endless supplies of money and we could all buy the best that money can buy. In reality there is a limit to what we can afford and I want to make sure I buy the best I can without overspending just for a name.

From all the reading I've done, most people seem to agree that the Vertex Alpha Cone series is right up there with or possibly is the best of the best (subjective I'm sure). Unfortunately it's almost $1100 new (before tax). I've been reading up on the SRO3000INT and it gets great reviews. In fact from what I've read (and from what BRS said when I called them), the SRO series is a great skimmer and should be just as efficient as the Vertex, but the Vertex had better build materials/quality. Knowing that the build quality on the SRO has to be pretty good (just not as good) and it's half the price sitting at around $600 new (before tax), is it worth it?

I read a study on the efficiency of skimmers (I can't recall where but I want to say Reef Builders) and it seems that no matter the skimmer, they are all limited to about 35% efficiency at removing nutrients. Some are just better at processing it faster than others. I am probably over analyzing this to death but all that being said, is it worth spending the extra $500+tax just to achieve slightly better quality build/materials? I guess what I'm really asking is, will I be kicking myself later for not spending that extra money or will the SRO be a great skimmer for my system?

[Sidius]

In the spirit of burning out all you wonderful people offering me advice, I'll ask another qestion. This time it's regarding the closed loop system I was planning.

Myka mentioned using nozzles instead of spray bars. I'm open to lots of ideas so maybe you could elaborate? Keep in mind that my glass tank is Aqueon and the bottom pane is tempered glass (According to their website) so I won't be able to drill that. My idea was to make spray bars using PVC and then pile rocks on top of them. I'd drill two separate holes, 1 for each spray bar, because I want two rock piles separated by sand and I don't want to see the bars (of course). I got the idea from another reefer somewhere that came up with the idea for trying to keep things from settling under the rocks. I'm not completely sold that it will achieve what I want it to do, it just seemed like a great idea in theory. Nozzles could work great as an alternative. I would also like to add 4x outlets with nozzles on a 4-way wave maker alternating current. Essentially it will have 6x 1" outlets with 4 being active at any given time. Will the Reeflo barracuda/hammerhead hybrid be insane overkill for this? It's rated at between 4300 and 6000 gph depending on what impeller you use (this rating is with 0 head loss). Keep in mind that I really like the maxspect gyre's and plan to run 2 of them alternating as well (one at each end of the tank for alternating waves/current). I figure, the more I can keep detritus/nutrients suspended the more will be removed from my tank in the sump. I love the flow patterns that the Gyre's create.

[Reef Pilot]

Originally Posted by Sidius

In the spirit of burning out all you wonderful people offering me advice, I'll ask another qestion. This time it's regarding the closed loop system I was planning.

Not sure why you even want the complexity, expense, and noise of a CLS. I had one in my tank initially (inherited the system), and while it was very powerful and provided good water circulation, it also had a couple major drawbacks that I really didn't like.

Number one, is that it made a lot of noise. Not the type that is obviously loud, but it had a steady hum that could be heard/felt upstairs (pump is downstairs) and throughout much of the house. Did everything I could to make the pump quiet with the mounting and pipes, but could not get rid of that hum/vibration.

And the other real PITA was having to regularly clean the inlet inside the tank. I had an easily removal PVC pipe at the inlet with many holes drilled in it. These had to be small enough not to suck in tank inhabitants or other more solid matter from your tank. But coralline algae loved it, and other crap would gather at this spot, and it required regular attention and cleaning.

I eventually decommissioned it and just use in-tank powerheads. They are much more efficient at moving water, and can be repositioned easily as required. They also use a lot less power, and can be programmed to provide variable flow patterns. No noise and they are easier to clean.

Anyway, just some things to think about with a CLS.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

Number one, is that it made a lot of noise.

I eventually decommissioned it and just use in-tank powerheads. They are much more efficient at moving water, and can be repositioned easily as required. They also use a lot less power, and can be programmed to provide variable flow patterns. No noise and they are easier to clean.

This is definitely true. The giant pumps used for CL are noisy. Powerheads are easier to deal with. CL though can be invisible.