Movin' on up

RobbAdams · #1 07-28-2006, 09:38 PM

I am going to pick up a 90 tonight, this is triple the size of my current 28 gallon bowfront. I will be going to a sump/fuge based system, but have no idea how they really work. I am also planning to run some sort of closed loop/SCWD type of thing for flow

The tank is currently un-drilled, but I am planning on drilling it. Is there any advantage to a bottom drilled over-flow Vs a rear drilled over-flow?

I am planning on a 3 ft 50 gallon for the sump with :

-1/3 for skimmers & Equipment(Aqua-c remora, a CPR Bak Pak 2 and heaters)

-1/3 for a fuge type area (all my currently grape macro infested rock)

-1/3 for the return area

Do you think these 2 skimmers wil be able to keep a 90 reasonably clean?

What type of plumbing is suggested (size of overflow, returns, pumps Etc.)

I'm not a millionaire, but I am willing to spend money to make things work right.

This will probably turn into a long thread as i go through each step with a million questions over the next couple of months.

My current set up is really simple (Tank Lights Heater Skimmer PH's) so I am a little out of my element.

Your help/advise is greatly appreciated.

Robb

danny zubot · #2 07-28-2006, 10:07 PM

Once you have decided what return pump you will use, most likely in the neighborhood of 1200 gph, use the link below to find your overflow size.

http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/drain.php

There is another calculator to find out head loss of your return pump too.

Are your skimmers both hang on type? If not I don't think 12" will be enough room for two skimmers and two heaters. IMO sell both of those and put the money toward 1 bigger skimmer.

RobbAdams · #3 07-28-2006, 10:23 PM

They are both hang on skimmers, I plan to hang them both on the end of the Sump/'Fuge

RobbAdams · #4 07-28-2006, 10:28 PM

1200 for the return, and 1200 for the closed loop? or 1200 total?

Robb

danny zubot · #5 07-28-2006, 10:54 PM

The closed loop will not add or diminish the flow through your sump. So you only want to count the GPH for the return pump.

Quote:

They are both hang on skimmers, I plan to hang them both on the end of the Sump/'Fuge

That sounds like it should work then, less clutter in the sump.

RobbAdams · #6 07-29-2006, 12:30 AM

ok, the 1200gph is based on the size of my tank or the size of my sump, or a combination of both?

albert_dao · #7 07-29-2006, 03:34 AM

Hey Rob, come by if you get a chance and I can go through all the plumbing with examples for you. Really easy stuff.

Anyway, I'll answer what I can here, sans live examples:

Quote:

Do you think these 2 skimmers wil be able to keep a 90 reasonably clean?

They are, but if you get the chance, upgrade to a proper skimmer. A properly sized Euroreef or ASM skimmer will knock the socks off of any two, even three hang-ons put together.

Quote:

What type of plumbing is suggested (size of overflow, returns, pumps Etc.)

I'm going to strongly suggest that you skip drilling the bottom of the tank and instead install a side overflow. This is pretty easy, just get the glas cut for a box, drill 1.5" holes in the back (that's right, holes, you'll want two - more in a bit on this), glue in the box and install bulkheads. Drilling the upper side of a tank doesn't comprimise the structural integrity of the tank, the same is not true for the bottom. Ideally, the overflow box should be 12" long, 4-5" wide and 8" tall for best results.

Now for the two holes. Using two holes will allow for a silent overflow, check Keith's (andrewsk) thread for more info on this: http://216.187.96.54/vbulletin/showt...t=25427&page=8

The basic idea there being that one hole (the one with the standpipe) acts as an emergency drain in the advent that the main drain (the one with the grill) clogs. The main drain has a valve at the exit that you throttle down just until the water level is a bit shy of the emergency standpipe. This keeps air out of the main drain while removing the drop that the water takes in a normal overflow. No air in the sump + no waterfall effect in the overflow = Silent system.

For pumps, I'm going to strongly recommend that you have your sump customized with a 2" hole at the return end. This gives you access to external pumps. External pumps > internal, no questions. No heat transfer, lower head-loss rates, easier to access and maintain (use true union valves when you plumb), lower noise issues, there really is no reason to use an internal unless you're limited by space or budget (the cost difference is about 25% for comparable pumps, with the externals being on the higher end).

You'll probably want to run anywhere from 500 to 900 gph, pending on how much flow you're going to get out of powerheads/closed loop within the main tank itself. Lower flow from main tank to sump being better (allows for a longer dwell time, a plus for skimmer performance). Since I'm at it, I'll also recommend a pump for you too: Sequence Reeflo Snapper. 500-2400 gph. Super silent, ultra reliable, plumbs with 1.5' tubing (AWESOME) and has a THREE YEAR WARRANTEE!!! The price is right too ($230-$250 CAD MSRP). The only down-side being that they arent pressure rated, but that's hardly an issue if the sump is directly below the tank on the same floor.

Quote:

I'm not a millionaire, but I am willing to spend money to make things work right.

That's proper thinking when it comes to this hobby. All the newbies take note here :P

Quote:

This will probably turn into a long thread as i go through each step with a million questions over the next couple of months.

It could be worse, you could be asking zero questions.

Hope that's of help. And like I said, drop by when you have the chance and I'll go over the nitty gritties of plumbing with you step-by step.

RobbAdams · #8 07-29-2006, 05:33 AM

OK, there has been a bit of evolution for the time being, I got a great deal (Thanks Keith) on a CPR overflow rated at 1600 GPH, so I am going to try out this route unless someone advises against it. It seems by what I have gathered regarding this unit that it is the safest method, unless I was running a dual overflow. For a return pump, am I supposed to have a higher GPH for the overflow or the return?

I also am going to give this Coralife superskimmer (Again Thanks Keith)a go, it is the largest model I believe (based on mesurements from online stores). Is there a difference in performance weather it is places in sump, or hanging? Do you folks feel this skimmer will be sufficient?

Also Where can I get this "snapper"

I only see the Dart and Barracuda on J&L.

albert_dao · #9 07-29-2006, 05:42 AM

Heh, here's a random google result:

http://diyreef.com/shop/product_info...roducts_id=404

The gph is influenced by the max capacity of the overflow. Go lower if you can, with higher flow within the tank. SEIO's are a great economy choice, Tunze's are better.

Delphinus · #10 07-29-2006, 05:44 AM

Albert has some great advice. The one point I might challenge him on is his recommendation for 1.5" holes for the overflows. Standard schedule-40 1" bulkheads require a 1.75" hole, IIRC. I'm pretty sure I've never seen a 1" bulkhead that would fit in a 1.5" hole. Schedule-80 bulkheads exist too and they require an even bigger hole. Unless he's thinking of smaller bulkheads?

I have a 1.75" drill bit for glass that you could borrow if you wanted. Drilling glass isn't too bad, I've done it many many times. I could help you out if you wanted.