Newbie looking for feedback

[IanWR]

Originally Posted by Myka

- Daily small WC is a waste of salt. Larger weekly or bi-weekly WC are much more effective.

I'd like to respectfully disagree with this point. I remember reading a RHF article where he crunched the numbers on the effects of many smaller changes vs 1 large one. This article (thank you google): http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/

I think the take away was that 1 30% change a month removes 30% of nitrates (for example), and an infinite number of infinitely small changes that equal the same 30% over a month would reduce it by just under 26%. So you do lose 4% efficiency by continual water changes, but gain consistency and possible ease of maintenance.

You also lose the siphoning of the sand to remove gunk, but you can always do an extra change just for that.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by IanWR

I think the take away was that 1 30% change a month removes 30% of nitrates (for example), and an infinite number of infinitely small changes that equal the same 30% over a month would reduce it by just under 26%. So you do lose 4% efficiency by continual water changes, but gain consistency and possible ease of maintenance.

Sorry Ian, you misunderstand the article (or maybe you misunderstand what I was referring to). The article references continuous water change, as in you're removing old water at the same time as you're pumping new water in, not daily water changes.

I was referring to daily WC where the total WC volume is removed, then consecutively replaced. Since every time you do a WC you're removing a portion of the new sw you just put in yesterday it is less effective. If the OP chooses to do daily AND continuous WC (which could very well be the case If he's using a doser for it) that would compound it by another 4%.

[IanWR]

Originally Posted by Myka

Sorry Ian, you misunderstand the article (or maybe you misunderstand what I was referring to). The article references continuous water change, as in you're removing old water at the same time as you're pumping new water in, not daily water changes.

I was referring to daily WC where the total WC volume is removed, then consecutively replaced. Since every time you do a WC you're removing a portion of the new sw you just put in yesterday it is less effective. If the OP chooses to do daily AND continuous WC (which could very well be the case If he's using a doser for it) that would compound it by another 4%.

I don't think I misunderstood either you or the article. You suggested changing 2g a day was wasteful and weekly or biweekly was "much more effective". I disagree with that assessment (again, respectfully! 😀 )

The OP is talking about a 180g tank (let's assume for the sake of argument that the total system water is 200g). If they change out 2g a day they are doing about 60g a month, for a total of 30% water volume. If they did it all at once every month it would reduce nitrates (and any other accumulated pollution) by 30%. By changing 2g a day it is reduced by about 26% (per the RHF article). There has been a 4% waste, in this case 8g.

I don't see 8g of saltwater a month lost to be that big of a waste to gain the benefit of automating the process (plus stability benefits, plus not having to heat the new water).

I don't mean to derail this thread, just wanted the OP to hear that I thought the plan for using the DOS to change 2g a day was a good one (IMHO).

[Myka]

Originally Posted by IanWR

I don't think I misunderstood either you or the article. You suggested changing 2g a day was wasteful and weekly or biweekly was "much more effective". I disagree with that assessment (again, respectfully! �� )

Sure, but the article doesn't support your opinion then. The article refers to a single continuous WC, not a daily consecutive WC.

For a daily consecutive WC of 1% per day for 30 days you will have 26% new SW in the tank. For a weekly consecutive WC of 10% weekly for 30 days you will have 34% new SW in the tank. If you change those WC numbers to 2% and 20% you will change 45% and 60% over 30 days respectively.

[Sidius]

My plan was to still do one or two larger water changes a month (Im used to over 100 gallons per week on my cichlid tank) and syphon sand/rocks. I got the idea for automatic daily water changes from reading through a thread over on thereeftank where a member did daily one gallon water changes and posted his results over the course of a year or more (I believe, though I could be wrong) and it was very successful. That sparked my curiosity to pound the Google pavement for more info and it seemed like the consensus was exporting nutrients daily was a good thing.... that being said, I am new to reefs and saltwater and I'm not about to disagree with anyone lol. Maybe I'll set the auto water change to do 15-20 gallons per week, instead? I know from experience with years of huge freshwater changes that if I can automate something like water changes, my life will be a lot better lol.

In regards to the skimmer, my main problem with the vertex alpha is just how expensive it is. I have a lot of other expensive items to buy and the SRO3000 gets pretty good reviews/feedback. I want the alpha but I don't want to overspend for better build quality if the SRO is going to be just as efficient at removing nutrients. These are just my thought processes and reasoning behind what I've come up with so far though.

I really appreciate the advice and it's given me some things to reconsider and keep it coming.

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[Sidius]

I didn't know that about the UV and bio pellets. Good to know. If I decide to run a bio pellet reactor I'll be sure to shut off my UV. I need to read up on bio pellets more to understand them better.

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[F.H]

I quarantine, and do a prophylactic tank transfer treatment (for ich) on all new members that enter my display. If done properly, tank transfer can almost guarantee to rid your fish of ich, even if you don't see anything on them.

I have a hippo tang, and I've never seen a single spot of ich on him since I've had him for about 8 months now. Same goes for the other 6 fish (knock on wood).

Some may find it a pain to be to meticulous about it, but I lost all my fish, when I first ventured into saltwater, to ich. Since then I've learned my lesson, and I'm willing to put in the effort if it'll greatly improve the chances of my inhabitants.

Of course, with this method, you have to be a bit more careful about anything you introduce into your display, including frags, inverts, etc. So you definitely have to be more aware of trying to minimize any possibilities for introducing disease in your tank by making sure not a single drop of foreign saltwater, regardless of where it came from, enters your tank, having separate nets/equipment as to not contaminate the display, etc.

As things go with all other aspects of this hobby, you'll find people that will say, and have experienced, the opposite. It all depends on whether you're willing to take a risk or not. Some people live with ich, have healthy fish, feed properly, and their fish can combat the ich on their own, given a strong immune system.

Just a thought, if you're worried about ich on your tang(s).

[Reef Pilot]

Originally Posted by Sidius

I didn't know that about the UV and bio pellets. Good to know. If I decide to run a bio pellet reactor I'll be sure to shut off my UV. I need to read up on bio pellets more to understand them better.

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Some people run UV for ich control. But with proper QT practices that isn't necessary. Also, beneficial bacteria is an important part of a healthy reef tank, the concern is that UV may kill or reduce that benefit.

[Reef Pilot]

Planning equipment for your new reef tank is good, but I don't think you have to go overboard. You can have a very good, thriving set up without spending a fortune. Then as you gain experience, you will have a better understanding and feeling for what you really need/want. There are of course some minimum givens, like good lights, and a good skimmer (lots of capacity is good, more is better, and too much is just right).

But just as important (I would argue more) are your reef keeping practices such as QT, dipping corals, checking/maintaining parameters (dKH is very important). I have seen far too many newbies (and some oldies, too) get frustrated and quit the hobby because their fish die or they get one of the far too common coral pests (AEFW is the worst). Or they have persistent algae and/or cyano problems. These issues are all totally preventable with good sound reef keeping practices.

Again, read lots and learn what has worked for others. But be wary of the many internet experts, that like to copy and paste, but have no direct experience themselves on a particular topic. And be a good observer of your own tank, to learn what works and what doesn't. Bear in mind, though, that there is often a very latent effect with cause and effect, esp with SPS corals. So don't be too hasty with anything. Anyway, it will be fun, and best of luck with your new endeavor.

[Sidius]

Thank you everyone for all your comments!!

To explain my ATO plans in more detail, I was planning to use a water reservoir with a Tunze Osmolator ATO to keep the sump topped up. The RO/DI would be plumbed with a solenoid and controlled by the apex to keep the water reservoir topped up (float switches for both low and high marks in the water reservoir). I was going to get a plumber friend who is also an aquarium junkie like myself to plumb the actual RO/DI because I admit that I know nothing about plumbing.

Would that give me the redundancy that you're referring to?

Basically the ATO keeps thet sump topped up and whenever the water levels in the water reservoir drop the Apex would trigger the RO/DI unit to fill the water reservoir back up. If the RO/DI failed it would overfill my water reservoir but it wouldn't fill my tank. The most the ATO could dump into my tank if it failed in the "on" position would be the contents of the water reservoir. I'm thinking a 20gallon tank or something would work well for a ATO water reservoir but would that be too much?

Edit: I should add that I live in a townhouse with ground level main floor so I have no basement and no closet to keep any tubs or garbage cans to store water. My wife isn't thrilled that I'm converting to a reef tank as-is so leaving anything visible to annoy her will just compound that problem lol.