how many times a hour should the water go through the sump?

[mike31154]

Alas, I am sumpless. And now I fear proceeding with my planned build which includes a basement sump!!

[banditpowdercoat]

I give up!!!


Whatever you run for sump flow, is Perfect!

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

I
Your math is incorrect in scenario three as well. The skimmer is fed new "dirty" water at a rate of 80 gallons per hour. Providing you agree that a FIFO system is the most efficient, some of that water will be processed once, while other molecules will be processed many times. There is actually a formula for this in Escobal's book that you disagree with.

which math, and it was all just off the top of my head.. it is close enough for this discussion.

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

How can you assume that you are getting "max pulldown" by reskimming the same water over and over at that unknown rate. Based on a feed of 80 GPH and skimmer pump output of 500 GPH, the water will pass through the protein skimmer 6.25 times per hour, providing your design incorporates a way of telling how many times each molecule has travelled through the skimmer before returning to the display A FIFO design can assure that all 80 GPH passes through once, but after that it's entirely random.

We can assume that if this is happening we have a hell of a lot better chance of getting a better pulldown than if we put 500 gph or 1500 gph through the sump. the point is the skimmer is going to skim the same amount of water weather it is the same water (or portion there of) over and over or some of the new water going buy. and what does FIFO stand for?? I hate abreabiations as everyone makes them up and doesnt state them on the first use like they should.

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

I don't understand why you wanted high flow in your sump? I like the idea of a settling chamber, but it should be slow moving and at the base of the first zone (skimmer/settling/mechanical filtration). Also why not use one pump for the chiller and UV unit? By returning these effluents (UV & chiller) to the beginning of your sump, you are irradiating the water two or more times, and getting a heat gain by not sending the chilled water directly to the tank. It looks like your system is a "water juggler" with a lot of resources expended to complete a simple task. By you description, your sump served two purposes 1) House the protein skimmer. 2) House a settling chamber. The rest of the equipment you mentioned is either a header tank or inline. Why not put the skimmer in the refugium header tank?

I didn't want high flow through the sump, that was a result of wanting high flow out of the tank to carry suspended "crap" out of the maintank into the sump. the settling chamber is the second one. the inlet chamber "first" is about 6X6 and over flows over 2 sides to a 18X12 section, then through some weirs and into the return pump section. as for putting the chiller and UV on the same pump.. not a chance way to far apart flow requirments. All my equipment was in line, except for two pumps. so I had less heat contrubution than most. and what I didn't mention was I was also running another 25 gal tank off the same sump. the new one I am building will be much different with regards to pumps and locations. to me a sump serves to purposes, hide equipment, settle out junk, and add water volume.

One thing that we have to remember is when we have a sump system people tent to treat the water in it as different from the water in the tank, it is all one system and one large water volume, so in reality the flow is a mute point as the water in the system all gets skimes at the same rate no mater what the flow through the sump is, Unless you go with a ultra low flow then you are putting enough of a seperation to the system to actualy had different water qualities in your Sump than you do in the tank, not by much but if the flow is low enough there is a possibility, a fast water flow helps disperse/desolve/spread things more evenly and faster.

I guess the point is to think of your system as a system not two systems, the sump just give a remote option for hiding equipment not a seperate water system.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Mr OM

I really do not care if we confuse people, I am sure if they ask the correct questions they will get the correct answers, and it isn't because we always did it that way.

.

you should care. personaly I like to help people and I will try make things as simple as posable if thats what is needed. I never do things because "we always did it that way" if we did I would still be using VHO bulbs and under gravel filters. I do think there are a lot of "snake oil" products out there that are a short cut for people who don't set tanks up properly or tank the time to mature there tanks. there is also a lot of products that prey on or desire for the "easy way" or "quick fix" do some of them work.. ya sure, are they needed .. no. so is some of my thinking old fashion.. ya maybe, do I stay with them because we have always done it that way, Hell no I stay with them because they work.

Steve

[banditpowdercoat]

FIFO

First In First Out. No reskimming and No bypassing.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by banditpowdercoat

FIFO

First In First Out. No reskimming and No bypassing.

thanks Dan.

[banditpowdercoat]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

thanks Dan.

No problem. I'm so used to using that term in PLC programming that I forget others don't know what it stands for.