Let's talk about bio load.

[mikellini]

Originally Posted by sphelps

A skimmer can only remove bacteria from the water column, same as just removing the water. Bacteria adheres to surfaces significantly more than the water itself thus removing the water or skimming heavier will not diminish a bacteria population period. This applies to carbon dosing or zeo, over skimming has no negative effects on a bacteria population, even if you're dosing it provided you dose downstream. So my point was when over sizing a skimmer to your bio-load the risk relates to removing excess essential elements such as potassium not bacteria. Make sense yet?

I understood your central point from the start, however saying a skimmer removes as much bacteria as a water change was mixed in there. Fact is, you can't compare the two. And truthfully a skimmer can remove a lot of bacteria.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by mikellini

I understood your central point from the start, however saying a skimmer removes as much bacteria as a water change was mixed in there. Fact is, you can't compare the two. And truthfully a skimmer can remove a lot of bacteria.

Disagree, if for some reason I wanted to remove bacteria from the water column I could change 100% of the water which would be far more effective than what a skimmer could do. Ultimately changing a given amount of water on a certain frequency would compare directly to what a skimmer would accomplish, same as removing any organics. But that's all pointless information irrelevant to anything we're talking about here, the comparison was only made based on the common misconception large water changes are harmful because they remove beneficial bacteria, so I was making the same comment relating to large skimmers...

[mikellini]

Originally Posted by sphelps

Disagree, if for some reason I wanted to remove bacteria from the water column I could change 100% of the water which would be far more effective than what a skimmer could do. Ultimately changing a given amount of water on a certain frequency would compare directly to what a skimmer would accomplish, same as removing any organics. But that's all pointless information irrelevant to anything we're talking about here, the comparison was only made based on the common misconception large water changes are harmful because they remove beneficial bacteria, so I was making the same comment relating to large skimmers...

Again that's a poor example. Bacteria multiply exponentially, it's not like removing a dissolved organic. Doing a 100% water change would remove all of the bacteria in the water (once), a skimmer will remove continuously.

I agree, a bit off topic. Sorry for that

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by mikellini

Doing a 100% water change would remove all of the bacteria in the water (once), a skimmer will remove continuously.

Here's my take on that. I don't care at all about any bacteria in water, so if it's there or not, makes no difference. The amount free in the water column is insignificant, so let the skimmer take out however much it wants.

[mikellini]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Here's my take on that. I don't care at all about any bacteria in water, so if it's there or not, makes no difference. The amount free in the water column is insignificant, so let the skimmer take out however much it wants.

If you're doing zeovit or dosing carbon, there will be a significant amount of bacteria in the water column at times. Enough that you can see clumps

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by mikellini

If you're doing zeovit or dosing carbon, there will be a significant amount of bacteria in the water column at times. Enough that you can see clumps

Nope, sorry, no clumps. And if there were clumps, that's bound and probably not really active in what I want bacteria to be doing, and therefore, again, insignificant. The only bacteria I'm concerned with are those on substrate, which are not removed in any amount, by any means, that concerns me.

[mikellini]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Nope, sorry, no clumps. And if there were clumps, that's bound and probably not really active in what I want bacteria to be doing, and therefore, again, insignificant. The only bacteria I'm concerned with are those on substrate, which are not removed in any amount, by any means, that concerns me.

When dosing carbon (and zeo is carbon dosing as well), a biofilm of bacteria is formed. It can form on the sand, rock, zeolites, carbon/gfo, biopellets, glass - whatever. This occurs because dosing organic carbon removes a limiting factor in growth, allowing nitrogen processing bacteria to thrive. These ARE the bacteria you're concerned with. The 'clumps' or biomass bacteria occur when the biofilm becomes too thick, and excess bacteria break off (also happens when shaking zeolites and releasing 'mulm'). But this is just a visual example of what already occurs when dosing carbon; the bacterial count in the water column goes up. You actually WANT to skim/remove these because in doing so you also remove nitrogen and phosphorus from the system. So while it's true that generally you shouldn't be concerned about removing 'too much' bacteria from the water column by protein skimming, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It happens to a degree in every reef aquarium, and moreso in those that dose organic carbon.

BTW I do feel this is relevant to the conversation, as dosing carbon (and the resulting increase in bacteria) should actually be considered as an increase in the bioload of an aquarium IMO. That is, if you are dosing carbon, you should increase the capacity of your skimmer accordingly.