getting a mandarin to eat

[asylumdown]

yah I'm not willing to risk aborting the QT period. My tank is actually C. irritans free and has been for a year. It's not just at low levels, it's not present, which has taken a ridiculous amount of work. If I were to introduce it now, I'd probably have massive losses because my fish likely have very little immunity. And even if I didn't have losses, I have a powder blue that I just returned to full health with perfect, unmarred skin. It would suck nuts to watch him deal with repeated outbreaks. I can't see any visible pustules on this fish, and there weren't on any others in the tank he came from, but I've seen ich in that tank in the past (I've seen ich in pretty much every tank in every store in the city at some point really), so it's just not worth the risk.

and I'm not sure if this guy is going to make it. If anything he's even more lethargic today. I've seen mandarins hunt before, and he's not doing anything like that. There's tons of pods in the tank now, but he's just ignoring them. Someone has offered to bring me some larger pods which I'm going to try out and see if those will entice him, but I'm starting to suspect that this fish may have been captured using one of the more questionable methods. This sort of a thing smells a little like a cyanide caught fish to me, I should have asked where the order came from.

Anyway, he's still alive, but I can't do anything if he won't even eat live food, so the best I can do is keep presenting them until he either starts eating, or he expires.

[Skimmer Juice]

Originally Posted by asylumdown

yah I'm not willing to risk aborting the QT period. My tank is actually C. irritans free and has been for a year. It's not just at low levels, it's not present, which has taken a ridiculous amount of work. If I were to introduce it now, I'd probably have massive losses because my fish likely have very little immunity. And even if I didn't have losses, I have a powder blue that I just returned to full health with perfect, unmarred skin. It would suck nuts to watch him deal with repeated outbreaks. I can't see any visible pustules on this fish, and there weren't on any others in the tank he came from, but I've seen ich in that tank in the past (I've seen ich in pretty much every tank in every store in the city at some point really), so it's just not worth the risk.

and I'm not sure if this guy is going to make it. If anything he's even more lethargic today. I've seen mandarins hunt before, and he's not doing anything like that. There's tons of pods in the tank now, but he's just ignoring them. Someone has offered to bring me some larger pods which I'm going to try out and see if those will entice him, but I'm starting to suspect that this fish may have been captured using one of the more questionable methods. This sort of a thing smells a little like a cyanide caught fish to me, I should have asked where the order came from.

Anyway, he's still alive, but I can't do anything if he won't even eat live food, so the best I can do is keep presenting them until he either starts eating, or he expires.

smart to not take the chance , especially with a cowfish in the tank. Cowfish can get ich super easy and other diseases ...

[Myka]

Originally Posted by asylumdown

Anyway, he's still alive, but I can't do anything if he won't even eat live food, so the best I can do is keep presenting them until he either starts eating, or he expires.

If they are already skinny they are REALLY difficult to get eating - any kind of food. I've had the best experiences buying Mandarins the day after they arrive at the store, and only from shipments when they are still fat. If he's not hunting that is not a good sign - questionable collection method or not (could be disease too).

[halwake]

I'm 2for2 now mandarin training. Put in breeder net for 2 weeks suspended in tank. Add some frozen brine couple times a day, usually takes a couple days for them to start picking at it. It sticks to the mesh and moves with the current, think this helps the feeding response. Start to introduce mysis. Usually takes a few more days before they will take it. Then they should almost take any frozen like bloodworms and such. Have not had luck with pellets yet. After 2 weeks, into tank. Spot feed with baster, mandarin comes right up to it. Problem now is all fish recognize the baster as a source of food and come in. Had my first mandarin trained to go into a small jar where his food was it to protect it from the other fish "mandarin diner". New one will go here and there but not regularly. Mine is the psych. Red mandarin. He hunts for pods all day and gobbles up any frozen I can get to him. He is a slow eater so it's tough to get him fed before the other fish move in.

Good luck, beautiful fish

[darkreef]

It took me 6 months to train mine he was near death in my 33 with 20 g sump with 60 lbs of live rock ( no swimming room lol ) he was a blue dragonet . Used chemiclean and the frozen just wasn't enough he died. Even when there on frozen they are grazers and need to be fed every few hours a tiny bit . So having a huge aquarium is the best.

Iv heard of using a little container , poke a few holes in it . And hatch brine shrimp and they will swim out of the holes . Never used it though .

The best time to feed was when he was hunting the sand bed in the back . Spray some mysis and not watch . They no when your watching! Eventually they will flap there fins and make the mysis swim sucking them up in the water

Goodluck

[asylumdown]

Well I'm just not sure what to do at this point. He's still alive, but he's still not hunting. at all. The Codfather was awesome sauce and brought me a bag full of the large sized amphipods. Combined with a fresh mat of algae from my overflow rife with the small kind of copepods and small mysid shrimp, this guy's tank is loaded with living food. He doesn't appear to have eaten a single thing in the first 3 days (which has now all be thrown out according to the TT protocol), and this morning when I did the transfer, I was able to simply scoop him up with my hands. He barely even tried to escape.

at lights out tonight, there was a large sized amphipod hanging out on the side of his face, with no seeming reaction from the fish.

He's still looking around, and every few minutes he'll change position, but he seems far more concerned with finding a sheltered place to hide than 'hunting' anything.

Question to all you experienced folk out there - if you were me, would you continue with this rather labour intensive QT protocol hoping that suddenly he'd start eating live food, or would you look in to one of the human euthanasia techniques for sick fish? I can keep going and put him in my DT when this is done because I have faith that this QT protocol will clear him of the kinds of parasites I'm trying to avoid (I'm also now treating with prazipro), but if he goes in to display only to die of starvation in a week, I'm not sure if I'm doing him, or the rest of my fish any favours. From my reading it looks like death by starvation (assuming no other internal organs are damaged) takes months for these fish, and even thinking about that makes me queasy. It would be one thing if it simply wouldn't accept frozen food, as I am capable of working with that, but not eating anything at all, even if it's exactly what it would be hunting in the wild, live and right in front of it's face, seems to me like there's very little hope for it.

[IanWR]

I wouldn't panic yet. Sounds like you are doing everything that can be done. He's probably stressed out from multiple moves, plus he's being medicated. So finish your QT, and if he's still hanging in then move him to DT. Maybe add some more cover for him? I'm still new to the reef game but when I got my bangaii cardinals they wouldn't eat for almost 2 weeks, then just decided to start. So who knows?

[MitchM]

Whenever I buy a fish, I only want fish that have been at the lfs for 2 weeks or longer and are already eating frozen food.
I would keep him in qt if he was a new arrival to the lfs.
I would put him into the dt if he was stable long term and eating frozen at the lfs.
You said you're treating with prazipro, but is there a reason why?
If there was no sign of illness, I would not have started treatment of anything.
If there's food in the qt tank, just leave him there.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by asylumdown

Question to all you experienced folk out there - if you were me, would you continue with this rather labour intensive QT protocol hoping that suddenly he'd start eating live food, or would you look in to one of the human euthanasia techniques for sick fish?

No. Some Mandarins are tough to wean, don't give up yet. You haven't tried nearly long enough. You've only had him 3 days? You have another 3 weeks at least.

Originally Posted by asylumdown

I'm also now treating with prazipro

That's a bad idea at this point - Praziquantel can, and usually does, cause temporary anorexia during treatment. This is certainly not helping your cause.

if he goes in to display only to die of starvation in a week, I'm not sure if I'm doing him, or the rest of my fish any favours

Exactly. Think with your brain, not with your heart. There is no way in **** I would be adding an inactive, apparently unhealthy fish to my display tank. That is backwards thinking... "He's not doing good in quarantine, so I'm going to put him in the display." Mandarins do JUST FINE in quarantine tanks PROVIDED you take the time and effort, which is significant, to train them onto frozen foods.

From my reading it looks like death by starvation [...] takes months for these fish

Yes. Keep going. If you're doing everything right, and assuming you started with a fish that was fat at the LFS, in my experience, he WILL begin to eat.

It would be one thing if it simply wouldn't accept frozen food, as I am capable of working with that, but not eating anything at all, even if it's exactly what it would be hunting in the wild, live and right in front of it's face, seems to me like there's very little hope for it.

I've had Mandarins do this, and they still began to eat frozen food.

What I have found the secret to be is consistency. Feed him the same food (frozen, plain brine shrimp with a drop of garlic), at the same time, in the same spot, everyday. Don't screw around with different foods, don't mess with him a bunch, and quit doing tank transfers until AFTER he's eating.

[Slick Fork]

+1 for giving him more time in quarantine. Once you're happy you've avoided parasites I wouldn't bother with the tank swaps, just give him/her a quiet place to hangout and have a chance to recover. The other fish in the display might bully it enough to push it the wrong way over the edge.