TM balling webinar synopsis

[Aqua-Digital]

I will also add, if you are doing a different 3 part right now, either remove the Mg and replace with part C (which container MG in proportion).

This is not all about TM balling being the ONLY way, its about doing Hans-werner ballings method, how you skin that cat is up to you, what other salts you use is up to you, but the important factor to all this IS

PART C

TM offer an off the shelf system with all elements, or they offer an off the shelf separated parts, you choose what you want from there.

But if you are going to dose minerals this way, lets do it right - Balanced

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

I will also add, if you are doing a different 3 part right now, either remove the Mg and replace with part C or reduce your Mg dosing significantly and add Part C to you equation in a different container, however you will likely (if your system is balanced correctly) no longer require the Mg mix.

This is not all about TM balling being the ONLY way, its about doing Hans-werner ballings method, how you skin that cat is up to you, what other salts you use is up to you, but the important factor to all this IS

PART C

TM offer an off the shelf system with all elements, or they offer an off the shelf separated parts, you choose what you want from there.

But if you are going to dose minerals this way, lets do it right - Balanced

That is something that I said in another thread that got closed Getting your own phamacetical grade CaCl and NaHCO3 and adding part 3 should be equal to complete balling But you didn't say anything on that

[Aqua-Digital]

I did not really want to have these threads open, DIY 2 part is a heated subject, a few people that follow it do tend to get upset when you point out their cheap or out of balance way more to the point is actually not correct and potentially damaging, as such we decided to go down a more info type of post, where people could then contact us directly should they want further info, just to stop the crazy off the wall debates that we often see.

However I thought I would try just keeping this one open see how it went, so far 90% ok Lots of good questions and answers.

It seems I missed your question or reply which I am sorry about, but yes you are 100% right as above stated, if you can find your own pure salt, then yer for sure go for it, but not everyone wants to store such large quantities you have to buy from the producers and there is a risk of moisture getting to it, as it will soak up humidity in the air, large quantities have to be used quickly just as with small amounts.

So if this is the way you wish to go I will happily supply all day Part C to everyone that wants to do Balling right. Part C is by far not expensive, goes a long way and you know then you are doing things correctly.

[Aqua-Digital]

There is one other caveat, other companies may too offer an NACL free salt mix, but does it have all the trace elements that make up NSW? If it does not then you still do not have a balanced system. I "personally" do not know of one that does, some others state you have to add 3 different additives to the other salt mixes to add essential elements, but even then it is likely not all of the 70+ required elements are being added, and are you even then getting the right ratio? With TM its a one shot system, the guessing is removed and the cost reduced due to not requiring to add other parts. This is where TM do seem to have the edge. Hans-werner who makes it for TM is not going to short change his own invention so you have reliability in his own research with this product.

Thats the golden nugget to this.

One other small point if you use other parties A and B salts is that you then have to figure out the ratio of strength to get it right, but with TM system all this is done for you.

Only you guys can decide if the small saving is worth all that.

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

There is one other caveat, other companies may too offer an NACL free salt mix, but does it have all the trace elements that make up NSW? If it does not then you still do not have a balanced system. I "personally" do not know of one that does, some others state you have to add 3 different additives to the other salt mixes to add essential elements, but even then it is likely not all of the 70+ required elements are being added, and are you even then getting the right ratio? With TM its a one shot system, the guessing is removed and the cost reduced due to not requiring to add other parts. This is where TM do seem to have the edge. Hans-werner who makes it for TM is not going to short change his own invention so you have reliability in his own research with this product.

Thats the golden nugget to this.

One other small point if you use other parties A and B salts is that you then have to figure out the ratio of strength to get it right, but with TM system all this is done for you.

Only you guys can decide if the small saving is worth all that.

Well instead of using randy's receipe, if someone just create the mixes according to the doc you posted, they should be getting something closer to what TM's balling is; maybe not 100% accurate but hey, some sacrifices have to be made I wouldn't mind trying part C since it kind of makes sense now I would consider it more as "adding traces with one powder" instead of all the ionic balances. Fancy words make things look crazy

[Madreefer]

I can't believe we've managed to keep our tanks alive for so long without this stuff. I'm pretty confident using the cheap salt as you call it.

[BlueTang<3]

Originally Posted by Madreefer

I can't believe we've managed to keep our tanks alive for so long without this stuff. I'm pretty confident using the cheap salt as you call it.

I jumped in this bandwagon bill calcium reactor leaked one too many times. As soon as my salts come in ill post some pics of the new dosing setup.

[Aqua-Digital]

Originally Posted by Madreefer

I can't believe we've managed to keep our tanks alive for so long without this stuff. I'm pretty confident using the cheap salt as you call it.

Thats great as I said before if thats the way you want to go then go for it, but at least add the balancing factor of part C, then you do not have two risks, just one.

But i still do not see the reason of using off the self salts and there are risks involved in them, I have seen many tanks with sudden algal blooms after a year or less, once the person stopped using the salt the issue slowly went away. As a hobbyist you have absolute no control what these salts have in them, you are buying salts not designed for your tank, food grade is great for food, but corals are a little more sensitive, I am not talking about poisons just wrong elements, too much bromide is one possible scenario.

So in "my" view I would rather spend that little extra and get salts from a known pure source where they have been tested and assured for you for the intended use. I also prefer to feed my expensive corals something that I cna trust in as replacing that coral will far outweigh the cost of using a proper salt mix.

But this is where the arguments start so i will end by saying, if you are happy using your DIY salts, go for it, just please at least see the importance of adding Part C.

[Aqua-Digital]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

Well instead of using randy's receipe, if someone just create the mixes according to the doc you posted, they should be getting something closer to what TM's balling is; maybe not 100% accurate but hey, some sacrifices have to be made I wouldn't mind trying part C since it kind of makes sense now I would consider it more as "adding traces with one powder" instead of all the ionic balances. Fancy words make things look crazy

Yep you are right it is adding all the traces in one powder, but its that one powder with all the traces that enables the ionic balance, it is important to be clear on that point.

I am not so sure about using another salt and copying the recipe, there is a chance you will get a different strength mix as not all salts are made up of equal components, so make sure you at the very least have the correct saturation points as marked, which for the average bobbyist could be difficult to achieve. Which brings me back to the point of why bother when the kit is readily available for you in the first place.

Is there that much need to try and find a way round a product just because it is a commercially supplied product for you, for your ease of use? After you have gone to all these efforts, in effect to beat what many feel as beating the system, or doing it cheaper hoping to get the same results, I am quite sure the saving based on time and effort would be minimal, and in some cases more expensive.

But that's consumer choice, do what you feel fits best with you. Just - yep - PART C at the very least.

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

There is one other caveat, other companies may too offer an NACL free salt mix, but does it have all the trace elements that make up NSW? If it does not then you still do not have a balanced system. I "personally" do not know of one that does, some others state you have to add 3 different additives to the other salt mixes to add essential elements, but even then it is likely not all of the 70+ required elements are being added, and are you even then getting the right ratio? With TM its a one shot system, the guessing is removed and the cost reduced due to not requiring to add other parts. This is where TM do seem to have the edge. Hans-werner who makes it for TM is not going to short change his own invention so you have reliability in his own research with this product.

Thats the golden nugget to this.

One other small point if you use other parties A and B salts is that you then have to figure out the ratio of strength to get it right, but with TM system all this is done for you.

Only you guys can decide if the small saving is worth all that.

Well perhaps you could provide a list of exactly what trace elements are in part C? In one post you state that of course it doesn't have ALL the trace elements from NSW but then in this quote you again imply that the TM Part C does have everything that makes up NSW but others don't.

I'm not trying to pick a fight or be skeptical but simply trying to achieve clarity here. That big list of all the trace elements in NSW is highly unlikely to all be found in any supplement. TM's or another brand's. It's just not possible, likely, or practical. So TM Part C will have the "essential" trace elements just as several other products likely do.

What I am trying to understand is what makes TM's Balling Part C different and/or superior to trace element products from say KZ or Brightwell or Kent or Thrive etc?

As for the purity of DIY CA or alk etc, let's not get ridiculous. Pretty much any decent DIY source or mix will be more than pure enough for aquarium use. Arm and Hammer baking soda is pure enough. Epsom Salts are pure enough for Mg. Many have used those for years without negative consequences. Anything good enough for human use or consumption is good enough. Even several sidewalk de-icers are more than pure enough sources of CaCl for our uses. And the savings can be quite significant as most of the Ca and Alk supplements I have seen are fairly dilute and expensive in comparison to the amount of say CaCl you can get for DIY supplements or in comparison to using Arm and Hammer baking soda etc. Epsom salts are cheap too for dosing Mg.

Again, I'm not saying that the product isn't good. I may consider using Part C with DIY CaCl and Baking Soda. But I might also, for example, consider KZ's Sea Water Complex All in One which appears to be quite similar.