What to do - thoughts appreciated

[gregzz4]

Originally Posted by Slick Fork

If (when) I start another tank from scratch someday I think I would start by putting all my liverock in, seeding some more life into it with a nice big ball of chaeto and then letting it run for a while, adding coral and a smallish clean up crew. It's hard to resist adding fish, but I do think there's something to be said for letting all the micro-life get established in the tank before introducing fish that will act as predators to it.

This is another line of thinking that has me wondering what to do

I have the chaeto in and just added 2 Astreas and 1 Scarlet hermit
After acclimating, the snails separated and started to move about
The hermit went right to it on the spot I placed it on and is still munching as we speak
... update ...
The snails are still in the same area but moving ...
The hermit has decided to take a break but I see ( let's call it a him ) his eyes and such still moving. He was eating for over a half hour

[gregzz4]

To condense daplatapus' generous input ( and thanks for it ) ....
I fully agree with the idea of QTing all fish
Even though some may be inclined to add their first fish right to the DT, I will not

I have just finished filling the QT with RO and am getting it ready for new fish, regardless if they will go into the tank before corals or after

With that said, we will probably buy one or 2 fishes tomorrow as I saw a couple today @ J&L that I'd like to have. They will go into the QT for weeks before going into the DT ( I think I've made that clear already )

So, do I start with corals, or do I start with fish ??????

[daplatapus]

I think a hardy fish is easier to care for. Feed 'em and give them fairly clean water and they're good to go. They also get you used to doing water changes and getting used to testing. Corals need good water quality, to some extent the right balance of elements like Mg, alk and Ca. Lighting is more crucial too. But that being said, there are some really easy, inexpensive corals that you could probably introduce at the same time. Why make yourself choose one over the other when you cann have both

[lockrookie]

you should wait be patient never rush i rushed my first tank and regretted it ore problems than enjoyment.. to be on the safe side... you could chance it and be ok but you have planned this long done all this work to what take a chance and add something. your rock is cured wait the full 4 weeks. or when you go to j&l purchase some prodibio start up add that to the tank let it run its course then add fish and coral.. but as i said you have put alot of thought into this. tank dontset yourself up to fail now

just my opinion

[gregzz4]

I see both your points, and both are still eating at me ...

Lock, what am I missing here ?
I cured the rock for 3 months. It's been in the tank for 11 days with no cycle and I used Seachem Stability for 7 days until Thursday

I see no issue with adding something now, yet you say to wait 4 weeks ... I'm puzzled

[lockrookie]

i cured my rock for my 50g and at week 3 i got an ammonia spike. most my rock was dry. but the tank itself needs to go through a cycle. no different than a fw tank needs to cycle. instead of using a fish(goldfish) like ppl do in fw. we use rock to cycle the tank. jump starting the system get the bacteria and nitrates and yada yada going. so that when you do add the fish and the coralsyou donthave this huge spike that wipes out the corals and fish you purchased. some ppl swear by prodibio startup.

and the way im going to jump start my 180 is by swapping spit with the old tank into the new tank since my water is already conitioned but my fish crap (literally) and micro oganismns it will belike i did a 50% water change on the 180. and even with that ill wait a week or 2 before i add everything just in case of a spike. your water is clean has no bacteriaother than that inyour rock it needs to build and as it builds it will add a spike once sike is gone then your good to go . but slowly .you add to much and it will spike again.

patience... diligence.. and due care.. you will have more success

[gregzz4]

OK, I get what you're pointing out, but you've still lost me ....

I've added rock that cured for 3 months
It has run for almost 2 weeks and there are;

0 ammonia
0 nitrites
0 nitrates

Plus, there's;
0 phosphates

I know it will cycle when I add something now, but, unless I'm missing something here, you are telling me that my fallow tank will still cycle on it's own ??????

It has not done so in 11 days

[gregzz4]

Of course I'm not gonna rush anything, but I'd like to get it started !!!!

[daplatapus]

Originally Posted by gregzz4

OK, I get what you're pointing out, but you've still lost me ....

I've added rock that cured for 3 months
It has run for almost 2 weeks and there are;

0 ammonia
0 nitrites
0 nitrates

Plus, there's;
0 phosphates

I know it will cycle when I add something now, but, unless I'm missing something here, you are telling me that my fallow tank will still cycle on it's own ??????

It has not done so in 11 days

I think I now understand part of your question. I've never tried cycling with any product in a bottle. So my following remarks may not even apply to your situation, and if so sorry for wasting everyone's time if they read this
Understanding the cycling process is key to knowing what's going on and any future spikes you're going to see. Ammonia is the first stage of your cycle. Without it your tank will sit there and evaporate water and that's it. So unless whatever is in the bottle has a decent about of ammonia your cycle can't progress. Ammonia can come from several sources. Dead and decaying matter or pure ammonia poured in. If you have cured live rock, everything on it is very much alive and thus no ammonia. But it still needs to eat so if not fed will die rot and produce ammonia. So what sometimes happens is if the tank isn't fed, either by ghost feeding, adding a non-living shrimp, etc, you cycle stalls out before it even starts. The organisms must be fed to keep alive and for the cycle to continue to it's next stage. Once the 2 main bacteria have developed in your tank your cycle is complete. If you have a DSB there are 3 bacteria. But the 2 bacteria that feed on ammonia and nitrite must be cultured and their growth promoted in your tank for that cycle to complete. W/C's and or a DSB will remove your nitrate's.

It seems to me your tank either hasn't cycled yet or if it did, you blinked and missed it Which is possible. I put in 120 lbs of pure Tonga live rock in mine then over 3 weeks threw in 2 cocktail shrimp which completely liquified and disintegrated in my tank. I never once saw any ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. Puzzled the hell out of me until someone pointed out the step by step process of cycling. If the bacteria is there in sufficient quantities, you'll never see a cycle.
But IMO, (I don't remember exactly what you put in there for LR and dead rock) I doubt you have enough LR in there to have accomplished that. Start dropping fish food or a cocktail shrimp in your tank for a week or so and see if there's any spike. If not, you may have cycled already.

Fish poop will also feed the bacteria chain. Corals eats fish poop so the more I think about it, they may actually hinder the bacteria building process by eating that food source. I know there are certain challenges with coral only tanks so starting with fish seems to be the wisest choice.

Hope that helps.