Cleaner Wrasse??

[Myka]

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

Myka, you're contradicting yourself. Here, you agree with me that Naesco's statement isn't true. But earlier you said "I would have to go ahead and agree with Naesco". Which is it?

Yeah, see Naesco is an extremist, as is Daniella. They both get a lot of flack for their "elitist" posts. I don't think that either one of them are arrogant, they are simply right to the point. They have a lot of merit in their posts, and I like to stick up for them because I think people can learn a lot from them.

I agree with Naesco that all our fish are better off in the ocean than in our tanks...sorry, I did not read all of his posts before I said I agreed with him. I should have quoted what I agreed with. I have already clarified my thoughts about keeping difficult species.

I have read a lot of your posts and articles, Myka (hard not to, you are a very prolific writer). But with all due respect, you sound more like a reporter than someone advising based on their own direct experience. I know you are a long time reefer, so don't get me wrong. But I haven't seen a lot of new or unique information coming from you that I haven't seen before on other forums or by googling. I may be wrong (hope I am actually), and feel free to correct me.

Thanks for your review (I appreciated these). I will keep in this mind in future writing. It is a style I have adopted as a method to try to keep inappropriate emotion out of my writing and come across neutral (as I've been called an elitist too), but maybe it doesn't read the best? I find forum discussion can often be misinterpreted, so I try to be neutral, but maybe I'm over doing it.

Myka, I know you write articles for magazines. Ever thought of profiling someone (like Daniella maybe) that could provide some new and unique insight to reef keeping. Your writing skills and her experience could be a dynamite combination. Just a thought.

So far, I have only written one article, although I have been asked to write more since. I'm not sure that profiling would be appropriate for what I have been asked to do. On the other hand, I thought you didn't like my writing skills?

Having said all that, you and I probably don't differ much, if any, on our views about QT. I just wish you would better separate yourself from "elitists" like Naesco who puts more merit on 1970's articles than current reefers' direct experiences.

I don't know if you are exaggerating when you say 1970's as I don't usually click any references people post unless something is unusual. However, reefers direct experiences are always very relative, and usually quite opinionated. Most people aren't quick to advertise their failures (although one reefer's exclamation that he tried 7 different CBBs before giving up comes to mind). Call me leery, but I try to take people's experiences with a skeptical eye, and try to weave those ideas into my own experiences.

[Reef Pilot]

Originally Posted by Myka

Thanks for your review (I appreciated these). I will keep in this mind in future writing. It is a style I have adopted as a method to try to keep inappropriate emotion out of my writing and come across neutral (as I've been called an elitist too), but maybe it doesn't read the best? I find forum discussion can often be misinterpreted, so I try to be neutral, but maybe I'm over doing it.

So far, I have only written one article, although I have been asked to write more since. I'm not sure that profiling would be appropriate for what I have been asked to do. On the other hand, I thought you didn't like my writing skills?

Myka, I think your writing skills are good. I just don't know where you stand sometimes. You need to think more about what audience you are addressing. Is it the newbies, avg SW aquarist, or the advanced reef keeper? You label both Naesco and Daniella as "extremists" and "elitists". I see them quite differently.

Naesco seems to be stuck in conventional wisdom. And yes, he indeed linked to a Cleaner Wrasse article that used references from the 70's to the 90's. I don't think he is extreme, just very old school and unwilling to learn anything new. He tries to be elitist, but comes across as being more pompous.

Daniella, on the other hand, I would call an advanced reef keeper. When I suggested to profile her, I meant her techniques, and how she has been successful. She is definitely unconventional. Whether it is white worms, vitamin C, the many chemicals and parasite remedies, difficult fish and coral, or Kent carbon issues, she definitely brings up stuff that I have not read or heard about elsewhere. And she seems to know her stuff, too. But I only see bits and pieces when she chimes in on a thread to help someone. I would bet she has a lot more knowledge and experience to share, and a good writer could make it very interesting and valuable, I'm sure.

I wouldn't call Daniella an elitist either, as she often starts a thread asking about something (often an advanced topic though), so it shows that she is always learning and open minded. The only knock against her, might be that she comes across sometimes as not being very tactful. I initially thought that too, with my early Copperband encounter. But I think she is a lot better at that lately, even with her direct approach.

So, I still say your writing skills profiling Daniella and her reef keeping experiences would make for a very interesting and valuable read.

[daniella3d]

I cannot get access to black worms, so no I did not try them. I have no idea if my fish would like them but I guess yes.

I enrich my white worms with Selcon, so they have a good nutritive value.

Originally Posted by Myka

Daniella, you talk about white worms a lot, have you ever tried black worms (not Tubifex) with your CBB or Cleaner?



Yeah, that seems to be typical of the Cleaners I know.

[mws]

[QUOTE

I enrich my white worms with Selcon, so they have a good nutritive value.[/quote]

I do the same thing.But mine would only eat the worms what are very small.

Also helped my wrasse on a beginning, when I just got him, was the group of green chromis I had at the time. They laid eggs non stop and it was a treat for him to go and eat the eggs. I sometime would stand with the net and hold chromis male(guarding) back, while my c. wrasse would get full.

[daniella3d]

If he does like to eat eggs, try fish roe (masago) or caplan eggs. This is the little orange eggs found on sushi. I give it each day to mine and he really loves that stuff.

I buy the Clearwater brand and it is seasoned but none of my fish, anemone or corals seem to mind the seasoning

I could not find a brand of these that was not colored and seasoned, but I have been feeding this to my fish and corals for 2 years now with great results. I feed it often to my ricordeas and they love it too...they just take like 30 to 40 minutes to swallow anything so cutting the pump for that long is a must when I feed them.

My cleaner wrasse is now quite big so he can eat larger worms but I always keep my cultures (3 cultures) running and well fed so there is always plenty of smaller babies in there and he does prefer the smaller ones.

Originally Posted by mws

[QUOTE

I enrich my white worms with Selcon, so they have a good nutritive value.

I do the same thing.But mine would only eat the worms what are very small.

Also helped my wrasse on a beginning, when I just got him, was the group of green chromis I had at the time. They laid eggs non stop and it was a treat for him to go and eat the eggs. I sometime would stand with the net and hold chromis male(guarding) back, while my c. wrasse would get full.[/quote]

[Myka]

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

Myka, I think your writing skills are good. I just don't know where you stand sometimes. You need to think more about what audience you are addressing. Is it the newbies, avg SW aquarist, or the advanced reef keeper?

I address newbies and average SW aquarists. It depends what you class as an advanced reefkeeper though? I really think advanced reefkeepers take their advice from the experts in the field, many of who have letters after their names. I don't put myself in that class, so I don't try to address advanced reefkeepers. I also think I have to prove myself to the average crowd before I could ever get any recognition with the advanced crowd. Know what I mean?

Naesco seems to be stuck in conventional wisdom. And yes, he indeed linked to a Cleaner Wrasse article that used references from the 70's to the 90's.

There's nothing entirely wrong with that as often there is nothing new in the hobby to reference. Some of the best in the field did their best work in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Take Martin Moe for example, he was breeding fish in the 70s and 80s that most people can't breed today. People are still looking back to his works to try to figure it all out. Although I get your point.

I wouldn't call Daniella an elitist either[...]The only knock against her, might be that she comes across sometimes as not being very tactful.

That's what I mean, Daniella comes across as an elitist, but I don't think she is arrogant at all. She ruffles lots of feathers around here, although I agree with you, she knows a lot of stuff. "Extremist" is really just another way of saying "perfectionist" in the case of Daniella, she puts a lot more effort into her reefkeeping than the average hobbyist.

I just looked up the meaning of elitist, as I thought one of us must have a misunderstanding of the word. "A person considered superior by others or by themselves; as in intellect, talent, power, wealth, or position in society." By the dictionary meaning though, you could class both as elitist as you think Daniella is elite, and you think Naesco thinks he is elite. My understanding was simply that I thought elitism was someone who thought they were elite, regardless of their actual knowledge. I actually didn't call either of them elitist, I said they make elitist posts. I enjoy both Daniellas and Naesco's posts.

Hmm...not sure how we got from Cleaner Wrasses to Naesco and Daniella.

[Reef Pilot]

Originally Posted by Myka

I just looked up the meaning of elitist, as I thought one of us must have a misunderstanding of the word. "A person considered superior by others or by themselves; as in intellect, talent, power, wealth, or position in society." By the dictionary meaning though, you could class both as elitist as you think Daniella is elite, and you think Naesco thinks he is elite. My understanding was simply that I thought elitism was someone who thought they were elite, regardless of their actual knowledge. I actually didn't call either of them elitist, I said they make elitist posts. I enjoy both Daniellas and Naesco's posts.

Hmm...not sure how we got from Cleaner Wrasses to Naesco and Daniella.

OK..., since we are now down to hair splitting, I guess we have beat this topic long enough....

[naesco]

Removed

[jtbadco]

Wow, guys......ease up. We're all supposed to be adults here.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

I cannot get access to black worms, so no I did not try them. I have no idea if my fish would like them but I guess yes.

I enrich my white worms with Selcon, so they have a good nutritive value.

Do you have Petland there? That's where I get Blackworms. They are $20 for a "small" bag that I can't use up in 3 weeks (15 fish eating 3 meals a day), which is as long as I've been able to get them to last. My Mandarin is the only fish that won't eat them, but he eats frozen food.