Boarder Crossing

[Quinn]

If you're going to order a large quantity from Dr. Mac, I'm assuming he's just considering you a reseller, and therefore it makes as much sense to go through a wholesaler in LA. But the minimum orders are large.

[Van down by the river]

I think it's commendable that you want to try to do it yourself.
I question the motives. To save a few dollars? To get something you think can't be acquired from your local aquarium shops? Have you given them the opportunity? What is it exactly that is worth the trouble? I've seen almost every colored coral from the states in Canada as well. Many even in some of the many Canreefers tanks.

Everyone keeps telling you to call customs and it seems from the replies that you keep avoiding this step. Customs will not take kindly to a person trying to weasel through the rules or loopholes. If they feel that In anyway that your shipment is not declared properly they CAN and WILL seize it no questions asked. The seller will have no responsibility in this, he knows if there is no re-export cites it will not get through customs.

As to mislabelling and taking a chance, I think is a big disservice to the hobby. Being both reckless and showing no concern for the animals whatsoever. Would you try to sneak a family pet or child across if there was a chance of losing them? Certainly not. Hoping the customs agent will be careless and unobservant should not be an option.

Of course the shipper is willing to send the shipment. He's already been paid.
You are just a hobbyist with a small order and if he never hears from you again his business will be no worse off. There's a reason many US companies don't ship to Canada, it's not worth their time unless it's a store doing a larger order.

I think that doing your homework is in order.
I think that the end result of that would be that you will save no time or money over buying it locally.
If there is demand for an item, stores will attempt to provide it. If they are unable to aquire it, contact Wendell at Ocean Aquatics or John at JnL's

[Nemain]

Maybe you didnt read my posts, I did call customs, I also called CITES yesterday. I also have my companies broker looking into the issue to insure that i have the proper information.

I take offence to the fact that you would infer that I am a weasle. Poor taste IMHO.

I posted this as to get information on other reefers thoughts and experiences.

Not everything in life is about money. No it isnt cheaper, no it isnt easier, and no I havent been able to find this coral any where else.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Van down by the river

If they are unable to aquire it, contact Wendell at Ocean Aquatics or John at JnL's

Since she's from Edmonton, maybe someone at AI can obtain stuff for her....

[vjvl51]

My advice is to get everything in writing. I knew I would be bring back to Canada something (not fish related). I called my Canada Customs. I even drove to the border crossing that I would be using and asked about the documents/procedures required. The day that I did bring the item across, a different agent handled the transaction since the agent that I had talked to was off that day. What I was told previously and what was required by this new agent was completely different. Since I didn't have the first agent's comments in writing with his signature there was nothing anyone would do for me. Remember - the agent you deal with at the time of crossing is right. If you disagree, the item goes into storage until things are resolved which can take weeks.

Once I crossed from the US into Canada, driving my mother's car (she was with me). The agent at the border would not let me continue to drive her car since it had NY license plates. According to the agent, it is illegal to drive a car with NY license plates when you have a Canadian driver's license. Once home I called my provincial police. They had never heard of such a law.

I wish you luck but I wouldn't attempt it given my experience at the local crossings.

Vickie

[bvoss]

I did the whole CITES thing and eventually gave up. I moved from the U.S. to Montreal a few months ago and invested quite a bit of time figuring out the CITES process. I ended up talking to the Marine Biologist in DC before I gave up on the process and sold my tank out on Reef Central.

The thing you need to understand is that CITES is primarily an EXPORT control. It is intended to limit developing countries ability to chop up thier fauna and sell it. If you have an export permit, customs probably will not have much trouble with it.

Here is the good news. CITES only covers (unless I missed something) reef building (LPS and SPS) corals. Fish, softies, and anenomes are not listed. You do need CITES for clams (I had a beautiful Crocea).

You need lots of data and lots of time to get through the CITES process. At least 8 weeks. You need to know things like a statement from every importer explaining where they got the coral and proof it was under CITES export control. Most LFS's do not have this. It is held by the importer (usually somebody by LAX for the U.S.). If the sample is propagated in captivity, you need a statement from the fragger stating when it was done, and by whom. Consider that when you go to your next frag swap.

I hope this helps. I wish there were less red tape, but I also wish that reef world wide were not in such a rapid state of decline. I personal believe they should ease up on the hobbiests like us. Polution and sedimentation are killing the reefs. We are trying to grow them.

Good luck.

Bill

[zulu_principle]

Originally Posted by bvoss

If the sample is propagated in captivity, you need a statement from the fragger stating when it was done, and by whom. Consider that when you go to your next frag swap.

Bill

This unfortunately is not my experience with CCRA, US-Fish&Wildlife, CITES or even Agriculture Canada.

I certainly wish it was, it would open up my market, huge..........



Wendell