more clams dead

[One_Divided]

There is something funny going on with the derasa's from J&L I think.. I ordered one which I recieved early this week in an order.. The clam opened up once after acclimation and then about an hour later was covered in hermits and nassarius feeding on it's remains. I would definately not blame shipping, my tank or my acclimation techniques.. I would say there was something wrong with the clam in the first place and the ordeal just topped him off.. The clam is not covered by any warrenty so I am left with a $30 shell..

[ 08 July 2002, 18:05: Message edited by: One_Divided ]

[Aquattro]

Adam, exactly what mine did. Next morning it was full of snails!

[jb1974]

I just wanted to add my story, if anything just to warn people...

About 1 month ago I added a Ponhepei maxima from an online retailer. I noticed within the week strange behaviours from my existing clams (the new max was gaping a little at the start). I had 8 existing clams :( Notice I used the word "had"...anyhow, I noticed that my maximas and squamosas were looking gapey (sp?). I noticed the derasas were looking closed up...I had recently upgraded from a 180 to a 360 and had added an additonal 250watt iwasaki to my 400watt radium over the clam area. I wasn't sure if the clams were stressed out form the move. I didn't think this was the case though as all my sensitive sps came through just great, coralline began coating the walls within 2 weeks of transfer and the sand bed was immediately showing signs of denitrification. I continued to and had always dosed Dt's. Things were and are extremely stable. I didn't think a 250 watt iwasaki (plus I ramped up the photoperiod adequately) addition would hurt them as a 400watt radium was over them before (equal par). I lost the Ponephei max about 2 weeks ago. I lost my huge beautiful bicolor ultra max about a week ago. I lost my 2 squamosas 2 days ago and the rest are still exhibiting the gaping etc... I noticed a thread on RC that talked about a strain of bacteria that could be infecting some clams at the wholesalers tanks. I do beleive this is bacetrial in nature. There is just no other way to explain this. All my clams were doing well before I added that one maxima.

I am desparate at this point to save the remaining 4 (I have lost 5 in total)...so desparate that I have resorted to trying chloramphenicol at the dosage of 20mg/L (Borneham) ...I dosed the clams (in quarantine) with it 2 days ago after losing the squamosas. The remaining 4 are holding on but look very sick :( I know this chemical is dangerous, but as I said, I needed to try this last resort.

I would advise (as others have done as well) not purchasing nay new clams for awhile (although it seems farmed clams are OK, just not wild). I hope no one else has to go through this as it is a real downer!!! I am learning more and more about the benefits of aquaculturing...I just seem to do it the hard way :(

J

[ 08 July 2002, 21:16: Message edited by: jb1974 ]

[Jayson]

Reef Raf,

The bubbles you are seeing in yuor sand bed are nitrate being converted to nitrogen gas. I beleive that you do need nitrate in your system to maintain good clam growth and health. The experts will agree on the fact that most clams will die of starvation. Last April when I was at a clam farm in Indo I learnt alot about the care of clams. one of the things that was lterally beat into my head was that they need food. You should see the amount of nitrate that they add. They also add some amonia as well. If you guys are interested I will send you a disc of pics from my last visit to see some suppliers in Indo. It has some pics of the clam farm. Wild caught clams will and do bring in pathogens that can cause a tank to suffer fatalites. This is why we only sell farmed clams. these clams are farmed in large vats out of the ocean on land. There has been alot of talk about captive raised fish being purchased over ocean stock. This practise should also be practised for clams and corals as well. To prove the hardiness of captive raised clams I have a good story for you. Here goes. I sent a packages of clams to Quebec via Purolater they sent the package to B.C by mistake. I received the package back 87 hours later all clams were still alive! When I bring in ocean clams I will lose atleast 10 per houndred. I just brought in over 130 farmed clams last week and lost none! Farmed clams are hardier,period!

[Aquattro]

Jayson, I agred that they need nitrate and yes, there is nitrate in the tank (demonstrated by the fact we see N2 being discharged from the sand). My thoughts are that given the fact we have one or two clams in the tank, the addition of extra nitrate seems overkill. On a farm, however, this may be a different story. The amount of residual NO3 certainly isn't enough to support a huge number of clams in a contained area.
Although I am by far an "expert" on clams, mine do extremely well and have done so over a year now. The growth rate for both my clams is great. I do feed DT's and my clams are over 3", big enough to support themselves via photosysnthesis.
Just the thought of adding NO3 to my tank scares me!!
Pics of your trip to Indo would be awesome.
Thanks for the comments.

[StirCrazy]

although I am no clam expert I think I understand what Jayson is talking about.

The same thing aplies in planted F/W tanks whare we dose nitrates as food, even though the tank is cinstantly producing nitrate my test kits always reasd 0. so by controling the nitrate level at 5 or 10 ppm, you are insuring that the plants get all the nitrate they need.

in a Reef tank there could be a chance that the sand bed will outcompete the clams and that the calms are not going to get as much as they would like so in the same tolken by maintaining a level of 5ppm you are not going to hurt anything but you will ensure that the clams will get there fill.

make sence?

Steve

[Delphinus]

Seems to make sense to me Steve. What do you use in your freshwater system to add nitrate?

And Jayson, same question, what are you using to add this nitrate? Where does one find this stuff (does it have a brand name?) Is is just some kind of specialized fertilizer?

I recognize Jayson's need to dose sodium nitrate; 180 clams that need to be fed is an awful lot of mouths to feed! (Imagine the DT's dosage on that one :eek: ). My last follow up question is this; in the hobbyist setup where there are only a few clams at most, is it as crucial to dose this nitrate, as it would be for a system maintaining 100+ clams?

I know I could easily add a whole pile of nitrates to my clam tank; by plumbing in my 20g carpet tank that chronically suffers from nitrates >40ppm. Of course, since the clam tank is only a 75g with 20g volume in the sump, the clam tank would go from (95g at 0.0 NO3) + (20g at 40.0 ppm) = 115g at ~6.9ppm (if my math is right). The one thing about that is, it would be a 0.0 to ~7.0 instantaneous jump, which I think would probably shock the heck out of things. I don't know, perhaps I am overly paranoid..

Presumably, things such as caulerpa and other macros will also be competing with clams for NO3 just as much as that DSB is..

[Aquattro]

I just feel that additional nitrate is detrimental to the SPS in the tank and that my clams are growing well without it. I can't say what is really required or not, but I won't add additional nitrate.

[StirCrazy]

well I make up a mix of the following

mix with water to make a 1/2 liter solution,
1 tablespoon chelated trace mix
1 tablespoon MgSO4+7H2O
2 tablespoons K2SO4
1 tablespoon KNO3 (varies, depends on your nitrate)

MgSO4 +7H2O is available from drug stores as Hydrated Epsom Salts

KNO3 (Potassium Nitrate) and K2SO4 (Potassium Sulphate) for thease I got them at a Hydroponic shop as "lab grade" but Greenlight's "Stump Away" is just KNO3.

now I am not sure if you would want potasium in a reef, so you might have to watch that level.. so if potasium nitrate is ok then you can get it at any hydroponic store I have found.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Originally posted by Reef_Raf:
I just feel that additional nitrate is detrimental to the SPS in the tank and that my clams are growing well without it. I can't say what is really required or not, but I won't add additional nitrate.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">there is the trade off, low nitrate levels don't harm anything that is normaly kept in a fw tank, but if SPS like nitrate free water then I woulden't add it either..

Steve