Ocean Nutrition Formula Pellet - availability

[RD]

Myka - If you consider reading some actual facts from someone who actually knows what the hell they are talking about, a tangent, that's certainly your prerogative. If you & fishytime want to live in a world of paranoia that's also your prerogative, I'm just keeping things real.

fishytime crys wolf about the added copper in New Life, yet at the same time mentions the good results he's seeing in another product that has even more added copper in all of their marine foods, than New Life ever had. You then join in talking about a substance that is supposedly a known carcinogen, when the truth is at the approved levels used in pet food it has never been proven to be anything of the sort.


And where exactly did the OP ask for anyones opinion with regards to copper supplementation, label regulations, or preservatives?

You're both welcome to your opinion, but I find it rather difficult to sit on my hands when I read comments such as those.

Cheers!

[fishytime]

how am I crying wolf?.....im stating a fact......yes, there are a few things that are ingredients in fish foods that contain copper naturally, in trace amounts and there is nothing that can be done about that.....thus it not being listed on some fish food labels, but still showing up under analysis......Im talking about something that is being actively added as an ingredient (for whatever reason) and listed as such on the label......why do you suppose it is, that NLS no longer adds or has decided to change formulas or facilities or all of the above and no longer add copper protienate??????...... what else changed in the formulation to warrant not adding copper protienate????......you should be able to tell me......your a moderator on the NLS forum arent you?????... if I can walk up to a shelf and take two fish foods of the shelf and one actively adds copper protienate and the other one doesnt, which one do you think Im gonna feed to my reef???...........all I know is, I have a choice........as I said in my first post "I'M NOT SAYING ITS A BAD FOOD, JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT"...I think that it is great food for fish designed with the fishes health in mind.......I understand that when ingested the fish are able to metabolize most of what they ingest......but what about that pellets that fall on my acan or nem or what ever......what about the food that goes un-eaten by the fish and feeds our reef????....I feed NLS small fish formula to my nano fish......do I like it?......NO.......but it is all that has been readily available......all Im trying to do is make people aware of whats in the food that they feed to their reef......the decision to feed it is up to them.......

Im not gonna sit here and take the word of some one who obviously has something to do with either the NLS forum or the company itself, or both and someone who's only posts here seem to be related to NLS foods.....what else would you say????......how long has the food been around? .....long enough to accurately state that there isnt any concern, long term over what NLS adds( or added) to their foods??..... providing links and info to a couple large aquariums that have been feeding NLS means nothing to me.......if I had a $10,000 dollar skimmer and all the money in the world to throw at filtration and 22,000g of dilution then I might not worry too much either.....

[Myka]

Hehehe...this is a good'er eh Doug? He called me paranoid...that's humorous indeed.

And yes, RD's post history is interesting. It is obvious that RD has an involvement with NLS fish foods.

[RD]

fishytime - what you have apparently failed to understand is that the vast majority of all commercial foods contain small amounts of copper in their mineral premix, as it is an essential trace element. Take a close look at the nutrient profile of New Era and you will find that they too actively add copper to their food. Each marine formula in their line has the exact same amount, 23 mg/kg.

Do you reckon that manufacturers add copper supplementation just for kicks, or because they enjoy spending money for no reason, other than to cause panic amongst reef keepers? Seriously, think about it. What manufacturer in their right mind would waste money where it wasn't required, or use any type of supplement or raw ingredient that had the potential to cause harm in an aquatic environment?

You asked how long this food has been around, approx 25 yrs, and it has been sold world-wide for approx 20 yrs. Five years of in house testing & tweaking, and 20 years of real world experience. Add to that 40+ yrs of marine keeping experience by the creator of this line of food. The owner has several thousand gallons of FOWLR & reef tanks in his home, with guests such as Bob Fenner & Charles Delbeek that drop in for visits when they are in south FL. New Life is actually the #1 food recommended by Bob & staff on Wetwebmedia, and has been for years. Maybe Bob doesn't know what he's talking about, either?

You seem to have some misguided illusion that somehow you know something that a fleet of research scientists that specialize in this field, don't know. If that's the case then please offer up something with some actual facts & data to support your claims, beyond your constant "the sky is falling" spiel.

If you are truly concerned about trace amounts of copper in your reef food, then what you should really be concerned about is the total amount of copper in the food, not which company is actively adding copper supplements. At least place your concerns where according to your argument, they should be. A food with no added supplementation could potentially have twice as much copper as one that does actively add it. Your fears are based on nothing more than imaginary numbers, and imaginary facts.

Also, when it comes to these various nutrients & trace minerals, bioavailablity is paramount, which is exactly why many manufacturers actively add this trace mineral to their food. The only number that truly matters is the amount that a marine organism can utilize for proper enzyme function and metabolism.

But hey, if you don't trust me, or don't want to take my word on any of this, feel free to ignore my comments and go back & re-read some of the comments from your fellow forum members when this issue was raised a couple of yrs ago. They pretty much said the same thing as I am.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=54356


If you still don't get it, then I'm not sure what more I can say on this subject? At this point I will have to let fellow forum members draw their own conclusions as to who does or does not know what they are talking about.

but what about that pellets that fall on my acan or nem or what ever......what about the food that goes un-eaten by the fish and feeds our reef????....

Many people actually target feed their corals with New Life pellets, and have been doing so for many yrs with no ill effects. Quite the opposite. New Life has even come out with foods designed just for corals, imagine that!

why do you suppose it is, that NLS no longer adds or has decided to change formulas or facilities or all of the above and no longer add copper protienate??????......

I explained that in post #4. Either way, New Life stopped adding a copper supplement when they began making their own food, at their own facility. The raw ingredients now contain enough nutrient supplementation that bioavailability is no longer a concern. This will be reflected when their new labels begin to roll out over the course of next year.

There are very few fish food manufacturers that actually make their own food, most have their food made off site by a commercial feed mill, with many now farming it off to feed mills in Asia. (hence the concern by the CFIA) New Life being an international company, with exports to all points on the globe, required being fully compliant with not only USDA regulations, but also APHIS regulations.

To make a long story short, the owner of New Life felt that to truly control his product from start to finish, he needed to make the food himself, onsite, at his own facility. Doing so also allowed him to fine tune & improve things in his formula, which included increasing the amount of certain ingredients such as South Antarctic Krill in his formulas. Once doing so he concluded that the natural copper levels found in his finished product was adequate, which is why he no longer adds any to the mix. Make sense now?


And for the record, for anyone that might not be aware of it I was the person who originally imported NLS into Canada several yrs ago, and yes, my company is still actively involved with importing & distributing this product, including to several sponsors of this site. I've never hidden that fact, and in this case it certainly has no bearing on my comments. I'm not looking to sell anyone anything, I simply hate to see misinformation being bantered around as though it was based on facts.

And Myka, seeing as you asked in that previous discussion, the level of copper in NLS has always been in the 20 mg/kg range, aka 20 ppm, or 0.002%. Most company information is typically kept confidential, and/or falls under proprietary information, for reasons I'm sure most consumers can understand. In this case divulging the quantity of Cu is not that big of a deal, and perhaps will help ease a few troubled minds.

My original reason for entering this discussion was to assist the OP, and seeing as I have personally trained numerous fish to eat the larger NLS pellets via pre-soaking them, and seeing as the OP already has these pellets on hand, it seemed like a simple fix to me. Seeing as I also work within the fish food industry, and am well versed on the CFIA regulations, and am in continuous contact with one of the top CFIA agents in Ottawa on these matters, I also felt qualified enough to explain why ON ran into problems with getting their food into Canada.


Happy Fishkeeping