New Pisces Location

[EmilyB]

Originally Posted by saltcreep

Be careful what you wish for. This can easily be the slippery slope.

Why?

[lorenz0]

saltcreep is kind of getting the idea of how it can effect an other pet trade

It's a great idea but even reputable breeders are questionable. Our family dog (lives with my parents) is probably the last remaining from his batch. We knew 2 other people that bought from the same batch of puppies and neither of them lived to see past their 5th birthday due to long term inbreeding. Our dog is full of problems but still remains healthy and recently has developed a hip issue.

Also petland tries to home dogs as well. They have a program that brings in unwanted dogs and gets them up to date with shots and vet bills. In return all they charge is the cost of the vet bills (usually around $300). Since alot of people purchase dogs from here it has proven to be very successful and most dogs leave the store in a week or 2.

Personally some of the best dogs I have encountered came from the spca and were reserve dogs. Also I hate seeing people selling 3 year old dogs on kijiji, its sad that the owner can't commit to what they started

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by lorenz0

saltcreep is kind of getting the idea of how it can effect an other pet trade

It's a great idea but even reputable breeders are questionable. Our family dog (lives with my parents) is probably the last remaining from his batch. We knew 2 other people that bought from the same batch of puppies and neither of them lived to see past their 5th birthday due to long term inbreeding. Our dog is full of problems but still remains healthy and recently has developed a hip issue.

Also petland tries to home dogs as well. They have a program that brings in unwanted dogs and gets them up to date with shots and vet bills. In return all they charge is the cost of the vet bills (usually around $300). Since alot of people purchase dogs from here it has proven to be very successful and most dogs leave the store in a week or 2.

Personally some of the best dogs I have encountered came from the spca and were reserve dogs. Also I hate seeing people selling 3 year old dogs on kijiji, its sad that the owner can't commit to what they started

I believe this petition exempts entities that are working in some sort of foster program. If Petland is working with a rescue, it would be exept from the bylaw. This also doesn't define reputable breeder, but it's a start in removing the market for puppymills to supply petstores with dogs that could sit in a box for months.
I recently met a couple that bought a boxer at the local petstore that sells puppies, the poor thing couldn't even walk. It had been in the little cage for 6 months
I've currently got a foster dog here that came from a mill, sold through a petstore, and is the most poorly adjusted dog I've ever met. Sweet girl, just doesn't have a clue about life.
Early development for puppies is a huge thing, and if the pup sits in a box from 7 weeks until it's 6 months, you're going to have a messed up dog. No way around that.
So for me, I think this is a very important issue, and I encouraged Deb to post it. Pet stores can do just fine without selling puppies; one of most successful stores locally feels the same way and the owner does just fine.

[Jamieh]

It's always the Pet Stores that are blamed for the number of animals that end up in shelters. I would bet that if you visited any shelter in any city in Canada you would find mostly medium to large dogs that had been neglected by their owners. Now visit the Pet Stores in the same city and you will find that most Pet Stores only sell small dogs. Very few of these small Pet Store dogs end up at shelters yet they get the stigma as being all of the problem. You should also try speaking to the Petland people about how they source their puppies and ask about the breeder visits they actually do to every breeder they buy from. You will be surprised to learn that they actually have a do not buy list that is shared among all stores and that they will not buy from so called "puppy mills". Also don't confuse how Petland in Canada does business vs how the puppy business in done in the USA.

Originally Posted by Aquattro

I believe this petition exempts entities that are working in some sort of foster program. If Petland is working with a rescue, it would be exept from the bylaw. This also doesn't define reputable breeder, but it's a start in removing the market for puppymills to supply petstores with dogs that could sit in a box for months.
I recently met a couple that bought a boxer at the local petstore that sells puppies, the poor thing couldn't even walk. It had been in the little cage for 6 months
I've currently got a foster dog here that came from a mill, sold through a petstore, and is the most poorly adjusted dog I've ever met. Sweet girl, just doesn't have a clue about life.
Early development for puppies is a huge thing, and if the pup sits in a box from 7 weeks until it's 6 months, you're going to have a messed up dog. No way around that.
So for me, I think this is a very important issue, and I encouraged Deb to post it. Pet stores can do just fine without selling puppies; one of most successful stores locally feels the same way and the owner does just fine.

[saltcreep]

While the petition and current and proposed legislation in various constituencies are well intentioned, I feel it is misguided and it opens the door for further legislation on the retail stores. Of all the outlets available where dogs may be purchased, retail stores are the ones that are the easiest to regulate. An outright ban on sales is not the answer and will not have a large affect on the numbers of animals in shelters. I for one would highly encourage any retailer to participate in programs with shelters if they are wanting to offer dogs for sale.

A greater issue, especially for this hobby, is that local governments may not stop at dogs. The City of Richmond (BC), who enacted a ban on dogs in pet retail stores has indicated that they may investigate other animals for sale in stores. This is the slippery slope! The City of Vernon (BC) proposed legislation for the ban on "exotic animals" (I can't remember the exact term used) which included marine ornamental fish. That was subsequently voted down, but it is an example of where this could lead.

It is far too easy for local politicians, who feel they are doing the right thing, to go a step too far in what animals are banned. All it takes is one misinformed councellor to introduce a bylaw based on pure emotion rather than informed facts. This could easily happen if a city catches wind of how some fish or coral are collected for this hobby? The same ethics would apply to animals in this hobby as what are being used for an outright ban on the sale of dogs in pet retail stores.

[Jamieh]

Great post. If Cities want to be part of the solution in regards to health issues and shelter over-crowding why don't they inspect all places selling pets in their respective City. Put some guidelines in place. When you see a store or person not following your guidelines act against that person/store. Why should every store get tarred by same brush when all have not contributed to the issues at hand. Education is key to success in most things in life and puppy sales fit here as well. Mention Pet Store puppies now and people start to think "puppy mill" and that is just not true in the majority of cases.

Originally Posted by saltcreep

While the petition and current and proposed legislation in various constituencies are well intentioned, I feel it is misguided and it opens the door for further legislation on the retail stores. Of all the outlets available where dogs may be purchased, retail stores are the ones that are the easiest to regulate. An outright ban on sales is not the answer and will not have a large affect on the numbers of animals in shelters. I for one would highly encourage any retailer to participate in programs with shelters if they are wanting to offer dogs for sale.

A greater issue, especially for this hobby, is that local governments may not stop at dogs. The City of Richmond (BC), who enacted a ban on dogs in pet retail stores has indicated that they may investigate other animals for sale in stores. This is the slippery slope! The City of Vernon (BC) proposed legislation for the ban on "exotic animals" (I can't remember the exact term used) which included marine ornamental fish. That was subsequently voted down, but it is an example of where this could lead.

It is far too easy for local politicians, who feel they are doing the right thing, to go a step too far in what animals are banned. All it takes is one misinformed councellor to introduce a bylaw based on pure emotion rather than informed facts. This could easily happen if a city catches wind of how some fish or coral are collected for this hobby? The same ethics would apply to animals in this hobby as what are being used for an outright ban on the sale of dogs in pet retail stores.

[saltcreep]

Just as aside. I looked in the online classified for the Vancouver Province newspaper...93 adds for dogs for sale.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by lorenz0

Personally some of the best dogs I have encountered came from the spca and were reserve dogs.

And to emphasize, the petition doesn't say don't go to pounds or rescues, it encourages it. My pitty cross came from the SPCA and is a wonderful dog (now).

[lorenz0]

Yes I read the whole petition and agree with it

BUT most people just don't give a **** and its sad. Honestly I can't even watch "I am Legend" cause he has to kill his dog. But back to reality of people not caring... To get this bylaw passed you have to hope that on city council you have a majority of animal lovers. Sure people like dogs but most just don't care where they came from as long at they are cute. Look at SMS (small dog syndrome) like you mentioned the young life of a dog is extremely important, now how many little dogs do you see that are properly trained and don't bark at leafs blowing in the wind every 5 min. Those dogs weren't properly trained and now they believe they own the world, my brother bought a yorkie from a rep breeder and never trained him. Even after years he still has a bunch of issues with not listening and doing as he pleases. Which than points at irresponsible owners and people who bought a dog cause they are cute. And there are alot of them out there. Now your looking at supply and demand. There is a huge supply for dogs and the more that are being sold (IMO) the more euthanasia will be present because no little girl wants a full grown dog. This brings us back to this petition, great idea but it seems like the only laws that get passed have to oppose keeping animals that could kill you. (BC and the reptile/ exotic pet thing that went on a few years back)

Plus I want to buy a boston terrier in 2 years once I have settled down a bit. Almost picked one up 7 years ago but decided against it.

[globaldesigns]

Originally Posted by lorenz0

Yes I read the whole petition and agree with it

BUT most people just don't give a **** and its sad. Honestly I can't even watch "I am Legend" cause he has to kill his dog. But back to reality of people not caring... To get this bylaw passed you have to hope that on city council you have a majority of animal lovers. Sure people like dogs but most just don't care where they came from as long at they are cute. Look at SMS (small dog syndrome) like you mentioned the young life of a dog is extremely important, now how many little dogs do you see that are properly trained and don't bark at leafs blowing in the wind every 5 min. Those dogs weren't properly trained and now they believe they own the world, my brother bought a yorkie from a rep breeder and never trained him. Even after years he still has a bunch of issues with not listening and doing as he pleases. Which than points at irresponsible owners and people who bought a dog cause they are cute. And there are alot of them out there. Now your looking at supply and demand. There is a huge supply for dogs and the more that are being sold (IMO) the more euthanasia will be present because no little girl wants a full grown dog. This brings us back to this petition, great idea but it seems like the only laws that get passed have to oppose keeping animals that could kill you. (BC and the reptile/ exotic pet thing that went on a few years back)

Plus I want to buy a boston terrier in 2 years once I have settled down a bit. Almost picked one up 7 years ago but decided against it.

Hey Lorenzo, just remember training a dog is more than that, it is really the training of the owner... I was a dog owner, and grew up with dogs... Dogs that don't behave, you are correct they weren't trained. But is more than that, the owner isn't trained. It is all about Alpha, who is the boss, the training is training both the owner and dog, and the owner has to take the alpha role, if the dog thinks its alpha (THE BOSS), then you can be in trouble.

I believe all dog owners, should go through a training program with their pet. Look at the number of pet owners that don't, training of the owner and dog can solve alot of behavior issues. Not all but alot. Some pets may be just plain CRAZY!!!

I agree with you 100%, alot of people buy any pet because of cuteness. Without any research... Any pet does require some thought and research, as many have stated prior, some dogs are put into shelters because the owners did not do this. That isn't fair to the animal!

Just my 2 cents.