Would you buy from an LFS that dodges questions?...****** Apology*******

[paddyob]

I agree to a point... but if the specimen is known to have a high mortality rate why is it still sold?

Its an animal. Short of starting a "PETA" conversation, which I definitely will not get into.... an animal is an animal... regardless of what type of animal it is.

If a tiger is treated poorly everyone would start pointing fingers.... why not fish? They have a right to live don't they?


I am no expert in this hobby by far.... but don't we expect this from the people who are supposed to be?

[Parker]

It's really up to the purchaser to make a responsible decision. The LFS may ask you questions ( How big is your tank, how long has it been operational, what other fish do you have in your tank, etcetera ) but it's up to you to be honest with yourself and answers. If people are buying fish without educating themselves first….. aren’t they just as much to blame? You can’t simply blame the LFS.

To use your example. I agree if a tiger is being treated poorly it should be dealt with, on a case my case basis. Not paint everyone with the same brush as you're suggesting. There are people out there that are very versed in caring for Tigers, should they be forced to stop doing good work because of one bad egg?

Fish definitely have the right to live, I just don't believe it's as simple as your making it out to be. As mentioned before, mortality is subjective.

[sphelps]

Really you do have to remember a LFS is a business and therefore profits are important. If you want to think that this hobby has a positive influence on the wild that's fine but realistically it simply isn't the case. I've read studies that say over 90% of all important livestock dies within a year which isn't a good number but it's probably true. Also the way I look at it is as soon as something is taken from the wild the damage is done unless you plan on returning it which obviously isn't the case. Then you also have to consider perception, there is a line between what can and can't be kept but everyone has their own lines and it's not fair for one person to come in and say their line or opinion is the right one.

To be honest if someone off the street came in and tried to tell me how to do my job or how to run my business I wouldn't respond much differently. Quite frankly if you don't like it go elsewhere, you're not being a hero you're just being annoying and disruptive. Maybe it was just a question but I see it as more than that. But that's just how I see it and I don't mean any offense.

[paddyob]

Originally Posted by sphelps

To be honest if someone off the street came in and tried to tell me how to do my job or how to run my business I wouldn't respond much differently. Quite frankly if you don't like it go elsewhere, you're not being a hero you're just being annoying and disruptive. Maybe it was just a question but I see it as more than that. But that's just how I see it and I don't mean any offense.

Wanting a direct answer is disruptive?

It had nothing to do with what your comment says. It asked for clarification to which the retailer made a snide comment.

Too bad more people are not concerned about the oceans.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by paddyob

Too bad more people are not concerned about the oceans.

This one always gets me. If more people were concerned, wouldn't there be a lot less tanks around? Removing a wild animal from it's environment and putting it in a cage is not showing great concern
Let's be honest, we're all a bit selfish in this hobby.

[paddyob]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

This one always gets me. If more people were concerned, wouldn't there be a lot less tanks around? Removing a wild animal from it's environment and putting it in a cage is not showing great concern
Let's be honest, we're all a bit selfish in this hobby.

I agree with your comment, to a point. It is more, I guess, about the lack of openness by a retailer when asked about "specific" animals.

We all know most fish are ok. But why support the purchase of specimens that are not aquarium suitable? Many Mandarins die to the inexperienced. Copperbands, Parrotfish, etc. A lot of people do not know about the special requirements some possess and some retailers do not educate.

There are many, MANY knowledgeable people in this hobby. BUT, there are also many who know nothing. There are also retailers who fall into both categories. If a retailer cannot be open about legitimate questions, then they probably also do not educate the less knowledgable of us.

I do my best to research the proper animals for my system and will personally never buy one I know has high mortality or one I am not advanced enough to support. So when I ask a retailer... it is BECAUSE I do not have the answer and expect they should. If they do not want to answer, or answer with ignorant comments.... wow. That is my point.

My only real concern... Factual and fair advice and answers from the retailer or lack there of.

[Aquattro]

I guess the difficulty here is you removed all your comments and we can only see the replies, which skews the context of the conversation. The "too much time" comment was probably out of line, but without the background, we can't tell.
As for the LFS, it's their job to sell stuff, it's our job to research it. In fact, I would never ask a question at the LFS that I didn't already have the answer to.

[paddyob]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

I guess the difficulty here is you removed all your comments and we can only see the replies, which skews the context of the conversation. The "too much time" comment was probably out of line, but without the background, we can't tell.
As for the LFS, it's their job to sell stuff, it's our job to research it. In fact, I would never ask a question at the LFS that I didn't already have the answer to.

I removed my comments as I do not want to be part of that conversation any longer.

Based on his manner of replies... I do not want any association to him.

[The Grizz]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

I guess the difficulty here is you removed all your comments and we can only see the replies, which skews the context of the conversation. The "too much time" comment was probably out of line, but without the background, we can't tell.
As for the LFS, it's their job to sell stuff, it's our job to research it. In fact, I would never ask a question at the LFS that I didn't already have the answer to.

This is my EXACT OPINION and I can be very opinionated and very vocal. As a business owner I feel it is my job to know all about the things I do and services I provide. But as a SW hobbyist I try to research everything I want to add to my tank as much as possible. It is not up to us as hobbyist to question what LFS do or bring in because they are in business to make money.

BUT if I have a problem with a certain shop I WILL NOT RETURN to that store and I do have my favorites and I will say that RED CORAL Calgary and BLUE WORLD in Edmonton are my favorite to visit. I don't expect to them to know everything but if they don't know and I don't know then it is research time for both. There are a few questionable shop out there one being here in Red Deer ( opps there I go again ) and a few with questionable pricing but who are we to tell them what to do. I just say don't go back if there is an issue.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[BlueWorldAquatic]

The biggest issue with this is what is the LFS hiding?

Short of asking for our costs & suppliers, there are no unreasonable questions.

The problem is is they have the answers. Are the staff train well enough to admit they don't have all the answers.

I personally can attest to not knowing everything, and tell the customer i'll check or look it up for them.

What it all comes down to is,are you confortable with the store or their answers?

You hold all the cards, if you aren't then you don't need to shop there.

Just my experience.

Ken - BWA