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#1
11-18-2010, 02:12 PM
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I use H2Ocean. I mix it in a mixing bin with an old pump. I put the salt in and let it circulate for a day or so... and leave the pump running the entire time I have a mixture in the bin. I have not experienced any flakes in the bottom. The directions state do not use H2Ocean for 24 hours. Is it possible you are seeing the flakes before it has had the proper time to dissolve? That is one thing I don't like about H2O, the wait time as in the past I can use my salt by the time I remove the waste water. BUT it gave me a reason to set up a proper reservoir ha ha! I have used IO in the past and have no regrets from leaving it. Went to Sea Chem Reef Salt and then to Bio-Sea when Sea Chem became hard to find for some weird reason. H2Ocean.... got so many good reviews from reefers, I figured why not.
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 My 70 Gallon build: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=66478 My Mandarin Paradise: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=72762 I wonder... does anyone care enough to read signatures if you make them really small? I would not. I would probably moan and complain, read three words and swear once or twice. But since you made it this far, please rate my builds. 
Last edited by paddyob; 11-18-2010 at 02:15 PM. 
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#3
11-18-2010, 03:11 PM
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I've considered switching to the new aqua vitro stuff since it has batch test data on the pail directly usually and if not you can look it up. It costs more than the reef crystals I use but I figured I could save myself doing 3 tests on each batch of water. The more I've thought about it tho I'm not so sure. You still have settling in the pail etc and I roll my pails but still...you just don't *know* unless you test. So I'm sticking with my cheapish reef crystals. Just wish it didn't look like someone took a dump in my mix tank after I drain the water out.
I never have to adjust Ca or Alk as both are a bit elevated which is nice. Burn through lots of Mg tho.
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#4
11-18-2010, 03:25 PM
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#5
11-18-2010, 03:27 PM
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Well then!
__________________
My 70 Gallon build: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=66478 My Mandarin Paradise: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=72762 I wonder... does anyone care enough to read signatures if you make them really small? I would not. I would probably moan and complain, read three words and swear once or twice. But since you made it this far, please rate my builds.
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#6
11-18-2010, 05:47 PM
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Salt is Salt
I don't worry about the Calcium, Magnesium or Alk of the mix I use in water changes as I use a calcium reactor. There's nothing like aragonite calcium reactor media to suppliment your tank with the right balance of alk, Ca, Mg, Sr and other trace elements. Aragonite has these all in the right ratios (with the exception of alk) that occur naturally. I'm a big fan of calcium reactors to eliminate your dosing headaches.
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180 gal tank, 50 gal sump, PM RFCa6 Ca Reactor, SWC Extreme 250 1A Cone Skimmer, Tunz Osmolator ATOF, Aquacontroller Apex, Aquaillumination Sol Super Blue 6 x 75w Units, Acros/Softies/LPS/Mushrooms/Zoos, Purple/Powder Blue/Yellow Tang/3xBlue Chromis/2xTomato Clown/Lawnmower Blenny
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#7
11-18-2010, 06:47 PM
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Muzzy's, Synthetic Salt, Test Results
I decided to conduct a series of tests on different brands of salt. First of all I would like to thank STM, for providing the test kits enabling me to conduct these tests.  The majority of you won't care about how these test results were obtained and by what method, but there will be a few that are! So if you scroll to the bottom of the test results you will find full details of the test kits and batch numbers used, methods of testing plus any other relevant information. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Seachem Reef Salt Temperature - 26c Salinity - 35ppt pH (Salifert) - 8.40 pH (Pinpoint) - 8.25 Ammonia - 0ppm Nitrite - 0ppm Nitrate - 0ppm Phosphate P - 0ppm Potassium - 380ppm Strontium - 0 - 3ppm Calcium - 545ppm Magnesium - 1425ppm Alkalinity - 9.1Dkh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- D-D H20 Temperature - 26c Salinity - 35ppt pH (Salifert) - 8.60 pH (Pinpoint) - 8.90 Ammonia - 0ppm Nitrite - 0ppm Nitrate - 0ppm Phosphate P - 0ppm Potassium - 370ppm Strontium - 4ppm Calcium - 415ppm Magnesium - 1350ppm Alkalinity - 8.1Dkh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Red Sea Coral Salt Temperature - 26c Salinity - 35ppt pH (Salifert) - 8.50 pH (Pinpoint) - 8.52 Ammonia - 0ppm Nitrite - 0ppm Nitrate - 0ppm Phosphate P - 0ppm Potassium - 340ppm Strontium - 22ppm Calcium - 405ppm Magnesium - 1170ppm Alkalinity - 8.6Dkh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hobby Marin Temperature - 26c Salinity - 35ppt pH (Salifert) - 8.70 pH (Pinpoint) - 8.88 Ammonia - 0ppm Nitrite - 0ppm Nitrate - 0ppm Phosphate P - 0ppm Potassium - 400ppm Strontium - could not test as calcium was too low Calcium - 300ppm Magnesium - 1080ppm Alkalinity - 7.2Dkh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Korallen Zucht Reefers Best Salt Temperature - 26c Salinity - 35ppt pH (Salifert) - 8.50 pH (Pinpoint) - 8.52 Ammonia - 0ppm Nitrite - 0ppm Nitrate - 0ppm Phosphate - trace Potassium - 410ppm Strontium - 0 - 3ppm Calcium - 400ppm Magnesium - 1170ppm Alkalinity - 13.8Dkh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Tropic Marin Temperature - 26c Salinity - 35ppt pH (Salifert) - 8.40 pH (Pinpoint) - 8.28 Ammonia - 0ppm Nitrite - 0ppm Nitrate - 0ppm Phosphate - trace Potassium - 400ppm Strontium - 0 - 3ppm Calcium - 350ppm Magnesium - 1200ppm Alkalinity - 12.8Dkh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Tropic Marin Trade Salt Temperature - 26c Salinity - 35ppt pH (Salifert) - 8.40 pH (Pinpoint) - 8.34 Ammonia - 0ppm Nitrite - 0ppm Nitrate - 0ppm Phosphate - 0ppm Potassium - 420ppm Strontium - 0 - 3ppm Calcium - 340ppm Magnesium - 1140ppm Alkalinity - 12.5Dkh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salt Temperature - 26c Salinity - 35ppt pH (Salifert) - 8.40 pH (Pinpoint) - 8.20 Ammonia - 0ppm Nitrite - 0ppm Nitrate - 0ppm Phosphate - 0ppm Potassium - 320ppm Strontium - 0 - 3ppm Calcium - 400ppm Magnesium - 1050ppm Alkalinity - 7.7Dkh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Reef Crystals Temperature - 26c Salinity - 35ppt pH (Salifert) - 8.50 pH (Pinpoint) - 8.32 Ammonia - 0ppm Nitrite - 0ppm Nitrate - 0ppm Phosphate - 0.03ppm Potassium - 420ppm Strontium - 0 - 3ppm Calcium - 480ppm Magnesium - 1290ppm Alkalinity - 13.1Dkh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Instant Ocean Temperature - 26c Salinity - 35ppt pH (Salifert) - 8.40 pH (Pinpoint) - 8.34 Ammonia - 0ppm Nitrite - 0ppm Nitrate - 0ppm Phosphate - 0ppm Potassium - 375ppm Strontium - 0 - 3ppm Calcium - 365ppm Magnesium - 1230ppm Alkalinity - 12.0Dkh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AquaMedic Temperature - 26c Salinity - 35ppt pH (Salifert) - 8.40 pH (Pinpoint) - 8.00 Ammonia - 0ppm Nitrite - 0ppm Nitrate - 0ppm Phosphate - 0ppm Potassium - 380ppm Strontium - 0 - 3ppm Calcium - 485ppm Magnesium - 1050ppm Alkalinity - 9.6Dkh ----------------------------------------------------------------------  The RO water was tested for nitrates and phosphates before use and read zero on both, although the kits used, are designed for salt water testing. Approximately 18g to 20g of salt was used per sample to 500ml of water, depending on brand. Mixed to a Salinity of 36ppt at 18celcius. Samples were mixed until all salts had disolved and the water appeared to be clear. This took between 5 minutes and 30 minutes dependant on brand. Samples were then decantered into 250ml screw top airtight and food grade plastic bottles, left at room temperature for 24 hours, then floated for 30mins in water of 26 celcius. Salinity was then retested and adjusted if neccessary to 35ppt at 26celcius. The test kits used were as follows: Temperature - System 2000 Digital monitor Salinity - Pre-calibrated ATC Refractometer pH - Salifert and Pinpoint pH monitor with new and calibrated probe Ammonia - Salifert Nitrite - Salifert Nitrate - Salifert Phosphate - D-D/Merk High Sensitivity Kit Potassium - Fauna Marin Kalium Test Strontium - Salifert Calcium - Salifert Magnesium - Salifert Alkalinity - Salifert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Test Kit Batch Numbers: pH - 1207-C Ammonia - 1007-E Nitrite - 0807-C Nitrate - NO3-1 1007-B, NO3-2 1007-B Strontium - SR-1 01567E, SR-2 02662E, SR-3 02774E, SR-4 402579E, SR-5 02669E Calcium - CA-1 0507-K, CA-2 0607-C, CA-3 0707-C Magnesium - MG-1 0308-A, MG-2 0308-B, MG-3 0208-P Alkalinity - KH 0507-D, KH-IND 0607-E ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The following test kits were pre-tested (twice each) against a Fauna Marin reference solution, this is supposed to be pre-calibrated with the following levels: Magnesium - 1295ppm Calcium - 415ppm Alkalinity - 6.6 Dkh Salinity - 35ppt Now here is a problem. The Salifert Magnesium test read the reference solution at 1200ppm. The Salifert Calcium test read the reference solution at 400ppm. The Salifert Alkalinity test read the reference solution at 8.6Dkh I also tested the Alkalinity test kit against Salifert's own reference solution for this kit, and that read 7.00 Dkh, the reference solution is supposed to be 6.5Dkh. I also found an issue with the salinity of the FM reference solution. It is supposed to read 35ppt, but I calibrated my refractometer with zero TDS RO water, checked it several times, and the salinity of the reference solution read 34ppt. You can pretty accurately calibrate a refractometer with tap water that has been run for a while, even if the tap water is say 300TDS, this is in ppm, not ppt, so at 300TDS it should still be assumed as zero on a refractometer. So what does this all mean? Due to the apparent error in the salinity of the reference solution and the big margin of difference against all the test kits, im quite convinced that the reference solution is short of some salt! Quite a bold statement, but this would explain the lower than expected salinity, calcium and magnesium, although Im not sure about the alkalinity. Anyway, I have given a figure for the actual test kit reading, you can choose to take that reading, or adjust as necessary to take into account the reference solution readings or take an average of the 2. I would definitely recommend you subtract approx. 0.5Dkh from the Alkalinity readings in any case. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Salt Batch Numbers: Not all salts come with a batch number unfortunately, where one was available they are as follows: Reef Crystals - 0732601 Red Sea Salt - 1302070037 AquaMedic - 4146 Hobby Marin - 50350 Tropic Marin Standard Salt - 35C66 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Price comparison: I have taken prices from various websites, using the largest available bucket and calculated an average price per KG excluding delivery charges. I suggest you shop around when buying your salt, as the prices varied quite a lot from one web site to another. Also look carefully at the shipping costs if buying online, this could add another $20 to the cost! Reef Crystals - CAD52 KZ Reefers Best Salt - CAD91.95 D-D H20 - CAD74.95 Aqua medic - ? Seachem Reef Salt - CAD49.95 Hobby Marin Salt - ? Red Sea - ? Instant Ocean - CAD39.95 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Conclusion: The results above should not be thought of being 100% accurate. They were obtained by a hobbyist with hobbyists equipment - just like you have at home. I have made every effort possible to ensure the results are as accurate as I could achieve with the facilities available to me. All the salt mixes were tested with exactly the same test kit and in the same manner to keep things as consistent as possible. You should remember that all hobbyists test kits will have a degree of innaccuracy, add to this the human input - me! the results may have been totally different if sent to a science lab. Also as only small samples of salt were used, there is no guarantee that the buckets were mixed properly. Its possible some elements settle nearer the surface and some nearer the bottom. The only way of being sure is to mix the whole bucket and take readings from that. Unfortunately I dont have the space or funds to mix up 700 litres of salt x 11 brands! I am not going to give my opinion on which salt "is the best". I know what appears to be the best for me, but you may have different requirements, maybe a fish only system and not a SPS reef tank. Maybe you like to run a higher magnesium, alkalinity or calcium than me, or even higher nitrates if you keep a tank full of big clams! So, please do your research and make your own decision on which salt suits your needs best. Don't forget that batches of salt will vary from one to the next, so if these tested were carried out again in a year from now, they could look quite different. I FOUND THIS PRETTY INTERESTING, ALSO. http://www.northcoastpets.com/salt_comparison.htm FROM WHAT I'VE GATHERED, SALT IS A SALT IS A SALT{MYKA} EVERY BATCH IS DIFFERENT, TEST EVERY BATCH, DOSE ACCORDINDLY, ITS LUCK OF THE DRAW. SAVE YOUR MONEY FOR BETTER EQUIPMENT THEN A "BETTER" SALT. 
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Though a tree grow ever so high, the falling leaves return to the root. 300DD - 140DD  TOTM Fall 2013
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#8
11-19-2010, 03:09 PM
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I wasn't really going to wade in on this discussion, but. To simply state "A salt is a salt is a salt" is quite ignorant in my eyes.
Can anyone here list the exact requirements to keep every living organism in your tank alive and thriving? Without knowing exactly what's needed and exactly what each manufacturer puts in their salt there's no way to determine which salt is best. Just because you can't measure or see a change in your tank based on what salt you use doesn't mean there aren't benefits or detriments to using one salt over another. Discarding the basics of salinity and temperature most people are only testing eleven parameters, I would bet most people aren't testing all eleven on a regulars basis or at all. I don't believe anyone here is naive enough to believe that if you keep these eleven parameters in check that you have what it takes to keep everything alive. The science behind oceanic creatures in still firmly rooted in the infant stage, there is a vast amount we don't know about the ocean and its inhabitants. I can eat Kraft Dinner every meal for the rest of my life, yeah I'm surviving, yeah I'm fat. Does that mean I'm healthy and thriving? No. We need a vast variety of items to keep us all happy, healthy and thriving. How many elements are in the multi vitamin supplements most people take on a daily basis? I can assure you it's more than eleven. It would be foolish to think the inhabitants in our tanks are any different. This isn’t meant to detract from any of the work that people such as Bblinks have completed. The work they have done helps in increasing the knowledge of the group as a whole as it pertains to the parameters we do know how to test and control. Regards
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Robb Last edited by Parker; 11-19-2010 at 03:15 PM. Reason: Fat Finger Disease
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#9
11-19-2010, 04:27 PM
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Wow! Seachem Reef Salt's numbers look awesome!
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240 gallon tank build: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...d.php?t=110073
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#10
11-19-2010, 04:45 PM
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the idea being, regardless of which salt you use, you will still be required to test, supplement and test...
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Hybrid Mode
