City of Vernon considers exotic pet ban bylaw incl saltwater fish

[mike31154]

Originally Posted by Seafan

Having moved from this area just over a year ago now, I'm unfortunately not surprised.
I just cannot understand this rationale. I could more so understand the countries of origin banning as this potentially hurts their country, but what harm comes to vernon for allowing fish?
Just out of curiosity what lfs closed up? I used to shop at them quite frequently.

Complete Pet Mart by Okanagan Glass has gone out of business.

Appears I've opened up quite a discussion here, many very valid points including the one about the fact that freshwater is mostly aquacultured whereas saltwater is not. Nevertheless, I think it really boils down to responsible pet ownership and that can't be legislated. The RCMP and most other police forces are far too busy with more important things than to raid people's homes looking for exotics. I reckon Vernon will need to hire a few more bylaw officers to patrol our homes, ha ha.

Anyhow, I went through the rigamarole to register with some comment website so I could add my two cents worth to the comments on the article I linked to. Here's what I submitted:

"That's quite a list of animals to consider banning. So where do we draw the line in our quest to appease the animal rights advocates. When it comes right down to it, what's the difference between keeping a so called 'exotic' animal and the conventionally accepted pets such as dogs & cats. Provided the animal is properly cared for, to me, there is no difference. Certainly some exotic pets pose additional challenges in proper care, but when you look at the lack of care some of our domestic pets receive, a ban on some 'experts' list of exotics makes no sense. Common sense dictates that not too many folks would consider keeping an alligator on their premises. A ban on irresponsible pet owners maybe."

[trilinearmipmap]

They have good intentions in banning exotic animals but by including all saltwater fish on the list they are showing their ignorance.

If you compare the amount of saltwater fish captured for the aquarium trade, to the amount of fish caught for food, the saltwater aquarium fish account for a tiny fraction of a percent of the total fish caught. If they are going to ban saltwater aquarium fish shouldn't they ban food fish first?

I agree that logical arguments need to be presented to council.

If I were a Vernon area reefer or pet store owner I would point out to them:

Endangered species are already protected by CITES
Many saltwater fish are captive-bred
People's jobs (local and in countries of origin) depend on the saltwater fish trade
Lots of other arguments I just can't think of them right now

Anyway the more people that post a comment on the article the better.

[Captainhemo]

This just sounds ridiculous to me. If they are going to take things this far, they may as well just ban pets all together.
Like someone mentioned above, where do you draw the line...
Are they going toban those live crab and lobster jammed in those tanks at the grocery stores? What about live lobster at restraunts (not sure if Vernon has any but). This could go on and on
Unreal.....
+++ on the " polititcians with too much time on their hands"

[JonT]

If I were to go online, and post pictures of my new black lab in a 2' x 2' room. Will anything be done? What, if I said that was where he was going to stay forever, and that I would only use a shovel to clean up after him (nope, not using cloth's or cleaners), and that I know he will get bigger, and benefit from a larger space, and that I think he is so cute, I might get two more!!!! (sorry for the run on, it was done intentionally)

What would happen? I would be in jail. Animal cruelty.

So, think about all the boards we frequent... Now think of how many times you have seen the same thing... I have a 40 gallon cube (details) then a huge stocking list including tangs, and other fish that will get bigger etc. And all of this will be maintained with inadequate filtration.

Not far off from what is being done to the dog, but with fish.

What happens? Nothing. The community will normally try to encourage the person to reconsider. Some will do it more passionately than others. But no matter what, they will not be charged with animal cruelty. Isn't it though?

I don't think a total ban should be the case. But it is easy to see why it would be included in the blanket ban.

I do however think that not everyone should be able to get whatever animal they wanted. If I go to a big box store, or a small LFS, they will order the fish if I am willing to pay for it. I would really like to think that the stores would make sure that the person could care for the fish. But I don't see it. How many fish stores carry groupers? Sharks? Idols? Nudibranchs?

What would happen if we all had to register our tanks with the city? Permits to get the fish (much like most places do with cats and dogs)


I love my fish, I do what I can to ensure they are taken care of. But there are many people with too much $$ that are helping to ruin our hobby. It is easy to see why they are looking at doing this.

[Slick Fork]

Originally Posted by JonT

If I were to go online, and post pictures of my new black lab in a 2' x 2' room. Will anything be done? What, if I said that was where he was going to stay forever, and that I would only use a shovel to clean up after him (nope, not using cloth's or cleaners), and that I know he will get bigger, and benefit from a larger space, and that I think he is so cute, I might get two more!!!! (sorry for the run on, it was done intentionally)

What would happen? I would be in jail. Animal cruelty.

So, think about all the boards we frequent... Now think of how many times you have seen the same thing... I have a 40 gallon cube (details) then a huge stocking list including tangs, and other fish that will get bigger etc. And all of this will be maintained with inadequate filtration.

Not far off from what is being done to the dog, but with fish.

What happens? Nothing. The community will normally try to encourage the person to reconsider. Some will do it more passionately than others. But no matter what, they will not be charged with animal cruelty. Isn't it though?

I don't think a total ban should be the case. But it is easy to see why it would be included in the blanket ban.

I do however think that not everyone should be able to get whatever animal they wanted. If I go to a big box store, or a small LFS, they will order the fish if I am willing to pay for it. I would really like to think that the stores would make sure that the person could care for the fish. But I don't see it. How many fish stores carry groupers? Sharks? Idols? Nudibranchs?

What would happen if we all had to register our tanks with the city? Permits to get the fish (much like most places do with cats and dogs)


I love my fish, I do what I can to ensure they are taken care of. But there are many people with too much $$ that are helping to ruin our hobby. It is easy to see why they are looking at doing this.

Very good point, I think in most cases the gov't is happy to leave well enough alone, unfortunately when a hobby/industry proves time and time again that it can't regulate itself properly then action gets prompted by someone (who probably witnessed a yellow tang in a 20 gallon tank) and usually results in the wrong people writing the law.

Too much damage is done to natural reefs for my liking as a direct result of this hobby, practices like cyanide, catching "unkeepable" fish, etc. are inexcusable.

As for banning fish for consumption... that fishing is usually not done in threatened reef environments (A guess, but probably a realistic one).

And Yes, I get the hypocrisy, I atone for it a little I hope by trying to purchase frags from other reefers where possible, I plan on stocking my tank with captive bred fish and if those aren't available make sure that they are not cyanide caught

[hillbillyreefer]

Banning things seems to be human nature. Every segment of the population has a certain thing they want to ban. In this case exotic pets. In other cases, meat, school prayer, hydrocarbon fuels, guns, abortion, nudity and on and on. It is the general population that needs to make their voices heard. If the small groups of banners do get their agenda passed it is almost impossible for you to take back your freedoms. A good example is the endless gun control debate, the anti's took away freedoms and it's been a 15 year fight to get those freedoms back. Never, ever give up your freedoms. Do everything in your power to fight City hall and the banners. In my experience a small group of well prepared presenters at a city council meeting can and will make a huge difference. The people on the ban side generally work off of emotions and not facts and rational. Fight back!!

[mseepman]

If you live in Vernon, I think it would be prudent to take a few moments and write "Buffy" the coucilor and let her know your "voting" opinion. I did.