GFI & storms

[Doug]

Alrighty. Took a couple quick pics of them. These are of course horizontal in the box.

I thought they were standard now, but have a hard time making believers.

[westom]

Originally Posted by Doug

I thought they were standard now, but have a hard time making believers.

GFCIs are not used on refrigerators for same reasons you have suffered.

GFCIs can be surge damaged if proper 'whole house' protection is not installed. So newer GFCIs will trip open on power loss. And will not reset if surge damaged. That is a problem for you.

So many have posted myths. For example, any ground fault before that GFCI is completely irrelevant. The only relevant ground fault is after the GFCI. AFGIs and GFCIs do not 'fight' - another myth based in not understanding what these devices do. GFCIs do nothing for surges - for so many obvious reasons.

A GFCI measures an electromagnetic field around both wires. Obviously, this causes no power changed or problems. If those fields are not same, then a GFCI opens. IOW if current after the GFCI finds some other path to earth, then GFCI trips.

This is considered a major human safety problem for refrigerators. Therefore GFCIs are exempted on appliances that cause safety problems when tripped.

[Doug]

Thanks for the input guys. Just trying to decide on what option to try so that when away and power flickers, I still have most things running. Likely best to only runs lights on that circuit when away and the rest on the house gfi circuit.

So then Westom, why does the other GFCI/AFCI not trip under the same circumstance? Is there a difference between the ones we install and my panel breakers?

Also Steve. Never heard from you since posting pics of the GFCI/AFCI. Dont you guys use them in Alberta or BC ?

[mike31154]

Originally Posted by Doug

Alrighty. Took a couple quick pics of them. These are of course horizontal in the box.

I thought they were standard now, but have a hard time making believers.

Thanks for the photos. Looks like they're Cutler Hammer breakers. I have a Siemens breaker panel and after doing some reading on combination AFI GFI units was unable to find any Siemens devices. Looks like these combo breakers are still few and far between, not that readily available. BC code does require GFI and AFI devices on all new installations as well these days. Bedrooms and any other room that may be used as some sort of sleeping quarters must be AFI protected, bathrooms and circuits to do with water, GFI protected. During my search on the net, it looks like the US NEC (national electric code) is in the process of requiring AFI protection in virtually every room! A little overkill maybe, trying to protect people from p-poor wiring installations? Who knows. Might as well design the main house breaker as an AFI/GFI unit, although that will be tricky with two hot wires. Some congressman or senator must have a brother who's an electrical contractor...

[westom]

Originally Posted by mike31154

During my search on the net, it looks like the US NEC (national electric code) is in the process of requiring AFI protection in virtually every room! A little overkill maybe, trying to protect people from p-poor wiring installations?

AGFI is for fires. I have seen many. For example, she connected the Christmas tree. Saw a spark. In five minutes, the entire house was afire. They did not even have time to rescue any pets. That is why AGFI are required.

Another burned the entire second floor because a zip cord inside a lamp arced. In every case (and others) the AGFI would have prevented every fire.

Doug - many differences (variables) exist. For example, all appliances leak current. How much? Which one is leaking more? And which one leaks more current when humidity increases? I cannot answer you question due to woefully insufficient facts. To have an answer, you must provide numbers. And this from my previous post: newer GFCIs trip open on power loss whereas older ones did not.

[Doug]

Thanks guys. Yes, I fully aware of what the AFCI are for. Besides Mike, the pics were for Steve, who never understood what I was saying. Same as the last thread, where someone told me there was no such as thing.

A portion of my tank runs on that circuit but it wont fire halides. Fluorescence no problem but not anything with an igniter I guess.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Doug

Thanks guys. Yes, I fully aware of what the AFCI are for. Besides Mike, the pics were for Steve, who never understood what I was saying. Same as the last thread, where someone told me there was no such as thing.

A portion of my tank runs on that circuit but it wont fire halides. Fluorescence no problem but not anything with an igniter I guess.

didn't need pixcturees od the breakers, the explanation was good. I found the arc/gfi's from cuttler hammer. and no they are not common as cuttlerhammer is the only one on the market right now and almost any new pannel I see is seemins. I am onb hollidays right now this is the first time I have been able to get on. I would honestly just change your GFI outlet as it is probably a bit dammaged. and for the 14 bucks, what the heck.

Steve

[Greenmaster]

I don't think anyone else has said this but I feel this is one of the more important investments for a reef tank...(especially one that has thousands of dollars of livestock). I would suggest getting a UPS modifying it and adding Deep Cycle batteries so that it can last for 12 hours or so... just to run your pump and heaters so you don't lose your entire tank... the entire thing should cost less then $500 and it protects you from lots of different power shortage issues... including making sure that the pump is always getting constant "clean" power... and that helps with extending the life of the pump too.

Just my 2 cents.

[westom]

Originally Posted by Greenmaster

I don't think anyone else has said this but I feel this is one of the more important investments for a reef tank...(especially one that has thousands of dollars of livestock). I would suggest getting a UPS modifying it and adding Deep Cycle batteries so that it can last for 12 hours or so...

First you cannot use deep cycle batteries in interior environments. They can output dangerous gases.

Second, a typical UPS outputs power so 'dirty' as to harm small electric motors and power strip protector. Same electricity is ideal for routinely 'more robust' electronics. To obtain a UPS with sufficient clean power starts at $500 or $1000 - before violating UL safety ratings by adding external batteries. Or power those motors, etc from a DC power supply that would isolate DC motors, etc from AC mains by first converting AC to regulated DC power. But that means replacing AC motors with DC motors.

Options are available. But one should first learn some simple electrical concepts before changing things - ie externally attached batteries.