Raw Pet Food

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

what do you do for veggies? every raw diet I have read has veggies also.

Steve

I don't feed anything but meat. Every (prepared) diet i read about mentions using veggies (presumeably as filler), however dogs don't produce enough enzyme (amalayse, I believe) to digest it. And anytime the dogs take it upon themselves to munch on some grass, it comes out the same way it went in.
The whole "wolves eat stomach contents" argument does not adequately prove anything, as many reasearchers have witnessed that the contents are shaken away and discarded, and any that is consumed is simply secondary to eating the stomach itself. Also, the volume of said contents is insignificant at best.
I feed a big variety of meat (chicken, beef, deer, fish) with organ meats and an occasional egg.
No veggies at all.
Lots of people on both sides of this fence, but dogs, as demonstrated by their dental structure, are carnivores.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

I don't feed anything but meat. Every (prepared) diet i read about mentions using veggies (presumeably as filler), however dogs don't produce enough enzyme (amalayse, I believe) to digest it. And anytime the dogs take it upon themselves to munch on some grass, it comes out the same way it went in.
The whole "wolves eat stomach contents" argument does not adequately prove anything, as many reasearchers have witnessed that the contents are shaken away and discarded, and any that is consumed is simply secondary to eating the stomach itself. Also, the volume of said contents is insignificant at best.
I feed a big variety of meat (chicken, beef, deer, fish) with organ meats and an occasional egg.
No veggies at all.
Lots of people on both sides of this fence, but dogs, as demonstrated by their dental structure, are carnivores.

ahh but the link you sent me to read about this stuff mentioned grasses, fruit and veggies as an important part of there diet, just not in large amounts. I know both my monsters eat grass like there is no tomorrow and if there are any fruits on the ground from the trees they are gone.

Steve

[Diana]

Its a tough call, since none of us are nutritionists specializing in canine and feline health. I would LOVE to talk to one one day and get the inside scoop on what they actually can and can't digest. I understand their digestive tract is too short to digest cellulose, but does that also mean they cannot absorb vitamins and minerals from some vegetables (read some, obviously it will do no good feeding them celery ). I wonder also if the veggies are added simply to aid in passing the food, to a similar effect that grass aids in it. The percentage of veggies in a lot of the premade raw diets is low enough that i doubt they are doing it as filler. But it also depends on the veggies themselves, because some are good but some are not. I agree though that it would make sense to feed dogs mostly (if not all) meat- which includes bone and organ meats.

But you know, as long as you are not feeding your dog Iams or Eukanuba (isnt it the same company?) or any of that shiznit, then you are doing your dog and the food industry in general a favor. Buy a good quality kibble or raw food, check the ingredients, (and as forementioned make sure its not rendered meats or meat byproducts) and feed your dog a variety.

We should ALL be aware of where our meat comes from. Modern society is treating its food animals like crap, and ultimately everyone's health will suffer from it. Where do you like swine flu and sars and all these viruses are originating? Animal farms. Buy local, organic, free range, wild, whatever you can. I have made the choice to stop consuming factory produced animal products... and I am really trying for my dogs as well.

-Diana

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Diana

But you know, as long as you are not feeding your dog Iams or Eukanuba (isnt it the same company?) or any of that shiznit, then you are doing your dog and the food industry in general a favor. Buy a good quality kibble or raw food, check the ingredients, (and as forementioned make sure its not rendered meats or meat byproducts) and feed your dog a variety.

-Diana

thats what made me decide on the Orijen, 70%proteen, 30%fruit and veg, 0% grains. they got a white paper on there site to explain why they canme up with this formula and the benifits, and rfeasons for picking the fruit and veg that they did. actualy an interesting read.

Steve

[Funky_Fish14]

Hey,

Sorry I dont have time to read the thread, but here are some specs:

Some of the best dry foods you can feed your pets if you choose to use these, or keep them as a back-up for the raw (which is what we do):

Orijen, Acana, and Evo something(I think someone can fill that in)? Thats just what I Can remember off the top of my head but you CANNOT go wrong with them. I personally use Acana with my dog (started using it 4 years ago) and he is in amazing health.

In the last 2 years though we switched to Raw dog food (actually we prepare MOST of it at home, literally from scratch ingredients). But we do buy patties of lamb/bison/elk on occasion, and when we first started we used chicken and beef, now he gets mostly deer patties, with some bison/lamb on occasion, or else beef. We mix in items like heart, liver, and bones into the formual we grind up ourselves. The dog also needs some vegetable matter (un-cooked), this we do sometimes mix in but I like to make purees for him as an 'afternoon snack'. THey can also have yogurt(and other milk-products) and some grains, but only in small quantities. You'll be able to find a list of safe/good ingredients of all that stuff tons of places - or, buy a book on raw food. I've read a few, and they are loaded with info.

Raw food is the most natural way for your animals to aquire their nutrients - it is what their stomach will be able to process the easiest and most completely. Your dog/cat are 'domesticated', yes, but biologically, they are still wild animals. Most dry foods are processed, full of fillers and other crap as im sure you noticed. The enzymes in their digestive systems just dont deal with this stuff. Dogs/cats (moreso dogs) do need some veggie matter - ever notice your dog eating grass? berries off trees? My dog goes berry picking in the summer, and eats things like asparagus, alphafa, and grazing grasses. THey also ingest the stomach/intestinal contents of the animals they would naturally kill, = veggie matter. So it is important.

These are benefits associated with quality foods and raw, that i have also noticed in my own dog:
Switching to better quality dry foods and/or raw dog food: healthier coat, less fat/more muscle, less 'doggy' odour, happier animal (feeding time is tons of fun with raw, especially when he gets Raw Meaty Bones), lower vet bills, longer life-spans.

My dog started on Acana at 9 years old and is now 13, he smells less, has a nice coat, has tons of muscle, is still plenty active, and hes a BIG chocolate lab. The only thing is he is going deaf, but I hardly doubt that is a consequence of food-choice. The vet is very happy with him.

You may notice that many(most) people feeding raw, often have old dogs that are still in great health, and also have less medical complications. Its simply more natural, and healthier. You just have to ensure you get the right balance of ingredients, which is not too hard to do. And if you want to switch just to a better dry food, the results are similar, but again raw is best. It may be domestic, but in the end the animal is still 'wild'... its not like processed food is good for anyone anyways... its bad for people too, lol.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

Chris


PS. - Your vet is on crack... he/she is getting payed to endorse whatever food they carry. Ever notice how a vet clinic often has one specific brand of poopy 'vet-specialty' food? Also, vets lose business if you pet is healthier - sick pets = vet money. They are not like the human healthcare system. If your vet does not support REAL quality dry foods or raw, find a new vet. Many vets will be welcome to these ideas, and you'll definetly go back to a vet who is encouraging you right? They know they wont lose business for encouraging the right pet-care.

[marie]

Originally Posted by Funky_Fish14

.......

You may notice that many(most) people feeding raw, often have old dogs that are still in great health, and also have less medical complications.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

Chris

If you want to be believed then be very careful about making statements like this
.....We had a labrador that lived to be nearly 18, was fed Dog Chow all her life and never went to the vet. I also have a shih-tzu that will be 16 in march, fed kibble all her life and the only vet bills I've had other then vaccinations is for teeth cleaning

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by marie

If you want to be believed then be very careful about making statements like this

I think this whole topic has to avoid "statements", as most of it is really just a pet owners preference.
Yes, many dogs that eat raw live longer, more active lives than kibble counterparts, but I'm sure there are many that don't. Diet is not the only factor in long healthy lives.
Also "stating" that veggies are important is simply an opinion. My opinion is that this isn't true, although feeding veggies probably isn't bad, so if you feel better feeding them, no harm done.
Some people insist that bones are whole, while others grind them up. To me, grinding removes one of the important benefits of bones. But again, it's purely preference.
Both sides of any portion of these issues has it's proponents and opponents.
Read all you can, talk to a variety of people that feed raw and then form your own opinion. The myths link I posted has a lot of good info, and disspells a lot of the heresay on this topic, although again, it's one websites' opinion.
Since most vets think feeding dogs raw is crazy, they are not a good source of info. As mentioned elsewhere, a lot of vets get their (minimal) training from the pet food suppliers, making it rather biased.
Canids have been eating raw for a lot of years before medi-cal was invented, and the species as a whole is doing pretty good, so there has to be something to the whole idea!

[Funky_Fish14]

Originally Posted by marie

If you want to be believed then be very careful about making statements like this
.....We had a labrador that lived to be nearly 18, was fed Dog Chow all her life and never went to the vet. I also have a shih-tzu that will be 16 in march, fed kibble all her life and the only vet bills I've had other then vaccinations is for teeth cleaning

Lol yes cause I clearly said its impossible to have dogs survive to old age and good health with kibble.... *roll eyes*