T.A. Nitrate Destroyer experiences?/Vodka dosing questions

o.c.d. · #1 08-31-2009, 02:30 PM

A Mr. Tailored Aquatics, So it being a trade secret I understand you can't give it up. But your Carbon source is just that a carbon source.Now yours is better, proof would help. Surely you have tested your product against other carbon sources. Would that data be a trade secret or a good selling feature? I think anyone who understands the chemistry involved to do what Vodka,Nitrate destroyer, and other carbon sources can achieve, would understand that Vodka is cheaper, more concentrated, and will essentially do the same thing. IMO all you have done is provided instructions on how to use your diluted carbon source.

sphelps · #2 08-31-2009, 02:56 PM

Just wanted to note that DIY methods are always cheaper, baking soda for example is way cheaper than any buffer but that doesn't mean you shouldn't buy buffers off the shelf. Some off us aren't chemists and dosing vodka may not be in there comfort zone. If I was going to go this route I would either dose a store bought product or lab grade ethenol.

naesco · #3 08-31-2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphelps

Just wanted to note that DIY methods are always cheaper, baking soda for example is way cheaper than any buffer but that doesn't mean you shouldn't buy buffers off the shelf. Some off us aren't chemists and dosing vodka may not be in there comfort zone. If I was going to go this route I would either dose a store bought product or lab grade ethenol.

Or simply do water changes and live with a little nitrate which does no harm.

Wayne Ryan

fencer · #4 08-31-2009, 07:54 PM

Don't forget that Zeo and Ultra systems are based on nitrate reduction by bacteria also. Their programs are a little more systematic. I have used vodka to reduce nitrates (10 ml/100g/day) and it has worked. It was more to feed my SPS than for the latter. In case of Fishoholic's tanks...a massive cheato scrubber would be better. In the long run it is way cheaper. I like ozone(...yeah I know you don't steve)

Oceanic · #5 08-31-2009, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naesco

or simply do water changes and live with a little nitrate which does no harm.

Wayne ryan

+1

Treebeard · #6 09-01-2009, 02:08 PM

Please define a "little nitrate".

Quote:

Originally Posted by naesco

Or simply do water changes and live with a little nitrate which does no harm.

Wayne Ryan

Myka · #7 09-02-2009, 02:13 AM

I think Christie has more than "a little nitrate" otherwise she wouldn't be so worried about it. IMO, a little nitrate is 5 ppm. Some people would say up to 20 ppm, but that just would not do in my tank. I can't stand being able to get any detectable nitrate reading for my reef.

In all honesty, I don't think there is much difference from one vendor's carbon source to another's. However, there are those of us who DO want that little bit of difference. Depends which bandwagon you're on. I am actually considering vodka/ethanol dosing, not for nitrate and phosphate control though, but for SPS carbon food source, and mainly just interest.

On that note, I think there is often a difference between raw ingredient products and reef formulated products. I have always found that reef buffer formulas work better than baking soda for alkalinity dosing. I can't explain why. I don't understand why.

Brad (Tailored Aquatics), really there is not a lot of difference between vodka and ethanol. They are cousins...maybe brothers even. Either way, both are forms of alcohol and are carbon sources. Both are effective, with ethanol probably being a "safer" choice because of its purity. I was hoping you would reply on here. Seriously though, your product smells like alcohol. "If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, then it probably is a duck."

Ian · #8 09-02-2009, 02:41 AM

i have read and re-read Tailored Aquatics 1st post in this thread and it would seem that while he stated no vodka is in the product Ethanol may stil be a primary ingredient as he never stated that this is not in it. If this is the case then it is likely a pure ETOH source being used along with some additional carbon sources.
What would stop a person from sourcing a 90% or better ETOH adding in a significant amount of garlic and having a very comparible product that is much cheaper.... everclear is 95% and readily available.....

Tailored Aquatics · #9 09-02-2009, 04:21 AM

Hey guys, sorry for the delay in posting. I have been crazy busy lately! Lots of good things going on with TA these days. Myka, yes you are correct vodka does contain a form of ethanol. It has very similar chains of molecules compared to some of the lab grades of carbon (not only ethanol) used for Nitrate Destroyer. What is different about Nitrate Destroyer (and Ian just touched on this) is has multiple carbons sources. Some research articles suggest these multiple food sources may help to grow multiple different strains of bacteria instead of a mono culture of bacteria from just one carbon source. Are multiple sources better?? Well there are people on both sides of that fence I'm sure, I believe the multiple sources that I've chosen work very well together. I also believe zero nitrates are zero nitrates how ever you get there!
PS. over 5ppm NO3 is to high IMO for an SPS tank but I can think of a few corals that do better in higher nitrates...so I guess it depends what sort of system your going for.
Brad