Funny thing about the LFS and the "relinquiesh the CITES" comment

[Ron99]

Sorry Dave, i am just getting confused as to what the point of this discussion is now. If it is trying to determine the process to bring these corals into Canada then that's a great topic and I am interested. If it is to try to cast doubt on the honesty of another vendor then that is probably not so kosher.

FWIW, I seem to remember Ian mentioning that his supplier not only had import permits but also re-export permits which was unusual. He told me this many months ago; before he was selling any of the Tyree or ORA frags. So if all that is required is to get hold of a copy of the original CITES docs and to have a re-export permit then I would be comfortable in believing that he has brought them in legally and legitimately.

If showing you the import certificates is the only way to "prove" this but that would give away his trade secrets as to who his supplier is then I guess he has every right to withhold that. Especially from the competition. Would you do any differently if the roles were reversed?

In the end it comes down to this: 1) Do you have some trust for the vendor? and 2) Do the corals indeed look like what they are advertised to be? Personally I have the impression that Ian is a stand up guy and does business honestly. So I would have no problem buying from him and the corals certainly look like the genuine article to me. I have seen Ian's corals in person and they look very much like the photos on his site.

Honestly Dave, it seems like you are trying to cast doubt on another vendor's business without having any evidence that he has done something wrong or contrary to what he claims. I quite liked the product I received from you and would do business with you again based on that. I also am very pleased with the product I received from Ian and will do business with him again.

Please let's try to keep this a productive discussion. if the purpose is to make another vendor look bad then this topic should be closed ASAP.

[paddyob]

+1

[Doug]

The thread has just turned into members slinging crap at each other.

Really good thread guys. And some have the nerve to post about staff closing threads and wonder why. Pretty self explanatory, is it not.

Dave, I,m closing it until your back online. Re open it if you wish ,for now and as long as it stays on topic, which seems to be a hard thing to do.

As Ron said , I dont even know what the topic is anymore.

[wickedfrags]

Forgot of course, you seemed pretty certain a few hours ago, call me a stickler for the details. Find the picture and I will provide the $50 credit utilizes days afterwards by a fellow canreef member - heck their was competition for that credit (again your words no not mine - Scott correct me if I am wrong here...). And everyone is a canreef reader - not MY reader. LOL all you like - they are your words - not mine, so be accountable for them if they in any way are associated with me. I look forwared to your email regarding for the frag you expressed interest in just a few hours ago, unless of course something has changed which is understandable...

Originally Posted by Borderjumper

OMG LOL me bad!! I forgot I sold a $30 credit for $20.. I thought I gave it away.. thats how much it was worth to me.. ~shrugs~ The point was, and still is.. I didnt want your frickin credit.
jeeze and you think this makes my opinion carry less resonance? You are a bully arent you? LOL!! and dont be misleading your faithful readers yourself.. the frag you shipped me didnt die.. there was nothing in the bag to die.. it was nothing but a bare rock. Since were into digging back thru old posts.. Im going to have to see if I can find that picture of the bare rock...

Its bad when you have to dig this deep and go this low to try and make a point..

Hey Ron. Ya, this thread should soon be closed for the very reasons you mention. I agree it IS a great topic, and I am VERY interested in it myself. The topic is not whether another vendor is honest or not - the topic is can it be done???

Names are not important - but when I asked about buying a certain coral, well all I got is a simply "trust me". And honestly, knowing what I know about the process, that was not so kosher with me. Again - perhaps a stickler for the details. If anything exists - will my PM's were clear - freely black-out all the supplier information, I am not interested in where they came from, only that they came through the good old USA (rather than vietnam, indo or australia).

I do not doubt the quality of any product - and am pleased to hear you have positive experiences with both myself, and the other person you mentioned.

That being said, in my mind (and from my perspective), given the specific nature of the pieces we are talking about, I feel the burden of proof lies with the person selling the Tyree corals. I hope to get Steve Tyree to comment here in the near future. Dave

Originally Posted by Ron99

Sorry Dave, i am just getting confused as to what the point of this discussion is now. If it is trying to determine the process to bring these corals into Canada then that's a great topic and I am interested. If it is to try to cast doubt on the honesty of another vendor then that is probably not so kosher.

I do not cast doubt on any vendor - what I cast doubt on is the process. I work with different government agencies on a daily basis (Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Labour). Provided the agencies do not need to work together - well the process is usually pretty consistent. The process appear inconsistent here - and only one agency is involved from the Canadian side.

FWIW, I seem to remember Ian mentioning that his supplier not only had import permits but also re-export permits which was unusual. He told me this many months ago; before he was selling any of the Tyree or ORA frags. So if all that is required is to get hold of a copy of the original CITES docs and to have a re-export permit then I would be comfortable in believing that he has brought them in legally and legitimately.

If showing you the import certificates is the only way to "prove" this but that would give away his trade secrets as to who his supplier is then I guess he has every right to withhold that. Especially from the competition. Would you do any differently if the roles were reversed?

In the end it comes down to this: 1) Do you have some trust for the vendor? and 2) Do the corals indeed look like what they are advertised to be? Personally I have the impression that Ian is a stand up guy and does business honestly. So I would have no problem buying from him and the corals certainly look like the genuine article to me. I have seen Ian's corals in person and they look very much like the photos on his site.

Honestly Dave, it seems like you are trying to cast doubt on another vendor's business without having any evidence that he has done something wrong or contrary to what he claims. I quite liked the product I received from you and would do business with you again based on that. I also am very pleased with the product I received from Ian and will do business with him again.

Please let's try to keep this a productive discussion. if the purpose is to make another vendor look bad then this topic should be closed ASAP.

[wickedfrags]

I am online now - but have had a long day of replying to posts which is not a surprise to anyone I am sure. Closing the thread is fine, thanks actually!

A re-focused VERY specific thread will open in the near future, deferred until a later date...until then enjoy the long weekend. Cheers.

Originally Posted by Doug

The thread has just turned into members slinging crap at each other.

Really good thread guys. And some have the nerve to post about staff closing threads and wonder why. Pretty self explanatory, is it not.

Dave, I,m closing it until your back online. Re open it if you wish ,for now and as long as it stays on topic, which seems to be a hard thing to do.

As Ron said , I dont even know what the topic is anymore.