thread review - canreef staff please read

[Ron99]

As I see it there are several issues/points here:

1. The corals are being advertised as having a specific "branded" lineage as ORA or Tyree aquacultured so I think Dave was just asking for some documentation to show that. Perhaps he could of done it by PM to avoid some of this controversy but I don't think he was accusing anybody of any particular and possibly shady dealings, he just wanted to see some documentation that these were in fact what was described. I suppose it's like buying a pedigreed dog or horse. You will want to see some documentation showing the pedigree.

2. A separate issue is whether it is possible to legally import these into Canada. From my discussions with Ian it seems they have found a way to do that. Good for them. If they want to keep it a trade secret for business reasons I guess they have the right to do that. Ian should be able to provide some proof of lineage without giving away his methods but I don't think he needs to do that publicly. That can be handled by PM or email or in person etc. To accuse him of possible illegal activity in a public forum without evidence is stepping over the line. Maybe those posts should have been removed rather than closing the entire thread but that is surely another discussion that does not seem to get much traction with the mods here.

3. The CITES rules are here and despite their flaws, they do exist to protect the wild stocks of corals and animals etc. So unless people want to organize an effort to have the rules modified to have different documentation standards for aquacultured corals then we have to live with them. Regardless it will all be open to abuse one way or the other. As mentioned, what's to stop importers from slipping in any ORA or TYREE acro species under an acro CITES permit (not that I am saying this is what happens). If you change it to have different rules for aquacultured stuff what's to stop somebody slipping in some banned wild acro with a bunch of aquacultured stuff? I think it can be open to abuse either way so what is the best solution?

[Aquattro]

Dave, I'm sorry, I really see this as a petty fight between vendors. You guys really need to work out your issues offline.
If you have an ORA coral, I'll buy it because I believe you, or I won't because I don't. It's my choice as a consumer. We don't need to go on about who does or does not have rights, pernits, etc, and I'm telling the DFO, and I'm telling your mom you're a coral smuggler.
This has become just plain silly.
You need to worry about and sell your frags.
Ian needs to worry about and sell his frags.
I have no freaking idea who Paul is or his association with Ian, and frankly, I don't care.
If I have a question for any of you about frags I want to consider buying, I'll email you. That's how it's done.
Please put this thread out of everyone's misery

[wickedfrags]

Don't care - perhaps then you/everyone can appreciate his logic!!! I can tell you a few stories...

He's online and reading....give it 10 minutes then I will close it if he won't step up.

Originally Posted by Aquattro

.
I have no freaking idea who Paul is or his association with Ian, and frankly, I don't care.

[wickedfrags]

You did however tell everyone you sold it - trust you can appreciate my confusion given the thread below.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...t=50179&page=2

Originally Posted by Borderjumper

Your wrong Dave, I didnt sell my credit, I gave it away.

[wickedfrags]

Alright, last post then I close it as people choose not to answer the tough questions.

...Paul apprears not to have the stones so I will say it for him.

Paul and Ian work together. They share some space now I understand...

Paul sold me some corals about a year back, he operates under a company name (acronym is his userID). Based on my dealings and telephone concervations with Paul - well I am not suprised Tyree/ORA/USA brand corals are being moved under his watchful eye.

To be continued in a more stringent, US coral re-export specific thread.

Thanks to everyone who posted.

[sphelps]

I don't see anything wrong with asking for documentation when it comes to stuff like ORA. You pay a premium price for this stuff so it makes sense. You wouldn't buy a diamond without some kind of documentation, so same deal.

However when it comes to coral names what possible documentation could you want? Vendors always name their corals and it's usually based on what it looks like. If you buy a poker star do you require documentation stating it came from the original colony? No, if it looks like it then that's close enough. This is starting to sound like a bickering battle between to people, this whole thread seems to be a waist of time, I can't even tell what's really being discussed.

Buyer beware! Move on, and if vendors want to go after other vendors do it elsewhere as I don't believe that's what Canreef is for.