Griffie the puffer keeping in shape

[Snaz]

I just wanted to chime in here about defensive responses and stress. Many animals have many different response mechanisms to stress all in an effort to improve survivability; camoflauge, ink-jets, tails that fall off or just run like hell etc. Off the top of my head I cannot think of any defensive response of any creature that would put that creature in further harms way, except bee stings but that is whole hive organism thing.

To say a defensive response contributes to that creature's demise does not make sense to me on an evolutionary scale. Can anyone think of any examples where a defensive response actually does the organism harm?

I understand that puffing is probably stressful and if a puffer was puffing too much and or constantly inflated it's not going to do well but I expect whatever condition is eliciting the defensive response is more harmful than the actual response.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by Snaz

I just wanted to chime in here about defensive responses and stress. Many animals have many different response mechanisms to stress all in an effort to improve survivability; camoflauge, ink-jets, tails that fall off or just run like hell etc. Off the top of my head I cannot think of any defensive response of any creature that would put that creature in further harms way, except bee stings but that is whole hive organism thing.

To say a defensive response contributes to that creature's demise does not make sense to me on an evolutionary scale. Can anyone think of any examples where a defensive response actually does the organism harm?

I understand that puffing is probably stressful and if a puffer was puffing too much and or constantly inflated it's not going to do well but I expect whatever condition is eliciting the defensive response is more harmful than the actual response.

There is a horned lizard that uses its horns when attacked to put pressure on its sinus cavities which ends up exploding its own eyes as a defensive response. There are ants that explode. There is also some species of hairy frog that breaks it bones to extend claws out from under its skin. Scientists are not sure though if they can ever get them back in.

Anyways, there are more Im sure but thats some I have heard or read about in the past. Many insects kill themselves for the good of the colony but that doesn't really count...so I guess the ants don't count

You can just do a simple google search about puffers defense mechanisms and get all the info you need about what it does to shorten their life. Just because they have evolved to be able to do it doesn't mean its good for them. Take the info how you want. If you don't believe it, you don't believe it...

Man, why do I bother to post stuff like this??? Need to remember to stay out of these things

The intentions really were good but somehow it was all taken as some kind of attack and false information. Oh well.

[Snaz]

GSP I think all of your information is great, I do not feel attacked and I doubt my2rotties feels attacked either.

My post was really an uneducated evolutionary observation and reading it again and your examples illustrate that yes some defensive responses can cause harm to the organism.

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

Man, why do I bother to post stuff like this??? Need to remember to stay out of these things

The intentions really were good but somehow it was all taken as some kind of attack and false information. Oh well.

[my2rotties]

I do not feel attacked at all, but rather tired of every single post I make turning into something other then its intention. I posted these pictures because they are quite neat and nothing was done to make him do it... it is just Griffie being a puffer. I know many people would love to have puffers and cannot for obvious reasons... so I thought it would be fun to share mine.

I tend to agree with Snaz's observation on this and I don't know how long puffers live in the wild or the aquarium. I guess I will see what happens with my guy. I am very proud of him and how far we have come since he came home with me.

I do think all puffers do puff up and perhaps since they are night fish we don't typically see it happen.

[my2rotties]

This what what Griffie had to say about this thread this morning... then he ate his breakfast and was back to doing what he does...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by my2rotties

This what what Griffie had to say about this thread this morning... then he ate his breakfast and was back to doing what he does...

Good to see he is nice and happy this morning

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by my2rotties

I do think all puffers do puff up and perhaps since they are night fish we don't typically see it happen.

Not so sure about that, as far as I'm aware Simon never puffed. He came close when it came to feeding time but I always backed away quickly from the tank in order to stop him from getting to excited and puffing.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by my2rotties

I do not feel attacked at all, but rather tired of every single post I make turning into something other then its intention. I posted these pictures because they are quite neat and nothing was done to make him do it... it is just Griffie being a puffer. I know many people would love to have puffers and cannot for obvious reasons... so I thought it would be fun to share mine.

I tend to agree with Snaz's observation on this and I don't know how long puffers live in the wild or the aquarium. I guess I will see what happens with my guy. I am very proud of him and how far we have come since he came home with me.

I do think all puffers do puff up and perhaps since they are night fish we don't typically see it happen.

Hey so then you know how I felt when you persisted in my copperband thread after I asked to please stay on the subject I hoped to stay on. That didn't last though as you and one other wanted to make it a cyanide/bacteria.ect. debate.

I think you said (paraphrased) that I had no say in what was discussed because your opinion was contrary to mine and you had every right to post your opinion. Along those lines anyways. Something about how I was hiding from the truth...I will look it up if you like. But you may remember better than I.

I agree, you did. Just as I gave facts about puffers here. It wasn't even an opinion in this case. My first post was NOT personal and actually not even directed at you. Someone gave false info and I stated a few facts. That was it. If the 'hes just stretching' comment was never made, then I would not have said anything more than nice photos. Actually I wouldn't have posted. Then after that my credibility was questioned and thats fair enough but my thread was from a year and a half ago before I knew any better. Although that calling out (not by you) made it personal.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

Hey so then you know how I felt when you persisted in my copperband thread

you don't quit, do you?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

you don't quit, do you?

I sent you a PM about that. It has to work both ways man.

Anyways, I won't say another word here. People can do their own research about why these wonderful creatures use their defense mechanisms and how it effects them long term.