For those who are always asking for proof...

[spoot]

Where is Cites when you need them? There ought to be better enforcement into matters like these; especially on products/livestock coming into North America and Europe.

[randallino]

+1

[blueyota]

WOW!!!!!!...i never saw anything like that before although iv heard of it ...and hope it comes to stop...even if it means the hobby has to come to an end...myself i think we as people with the power we have together or as a singles we can totally stop this .....or help replace some of it by growing frags in our tanks then taking them and putting them back into our delicate reefs or raising what fish we can and setting the back ....i am really sad to see all this terror we are doing to our oceans we really need to take a few steps back and take a look at the big picture... sorry for the rant ....just needed to say something....

[TheRealBigAL]

We should go find all those dynamite/cyanide fisherman and give em a good canadian Ass Woopin.

Its terrible that nothing in the Philippines is protected. The reefs are not going to last much longer like that

[Leah]

What I do not understand is if 75% die off within 48 hrs. Than what are they selling?
How are they making any money this way? I can not seem to understand why then
this would be profitable. If they see this why would they continue. I can not see the
logic in this. Sorry this really confuses me! I agree this is really sad.

[untamed]

Originally Posted by Leah

What I do not understand is if 75% die off within 48 hrs. Than what are they selling?
How are they making any money this way? I can not seem to understand why then
this would be profitable. If they see this why would they continue. I can not see the
logic in this. Sorry this really confuses me! I agree this is really sad.

It just takes too long to catch fish any other way. The sad fact is that this IS efficient, even if the mortality is 75% or more.

Sadly, I don't think that reducing wastefulness is really going to solve anything in the long term. Eventually, there are just so many people on this planet that there just isn't going to be enough of anything.

http://math.berkeley.edu/~galen/popclk.html

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by untamed

It just takes too long to catch fish any other way. The sad fact is that this IS efficient, even if the mortality is 75% or more.

Sadly, I don't think that reducing wastefulness is really going to solve anything in the long term. Eventually, there are just so many people on this planet that there just isn't going to be enough of anything.

http://math.berkeley.edu/~galen/popclk.html

I agree 100%.

[Puff]

i work in thailand most summers and we have a very nice tank in the office. i went to the supplier one day and had a good ole' b***h out. the guy was putting the completely wrong fish and corals in the tank, and things were suffering. the next day the tank had fewer, and better suited inhabitants. it's a rougly 30-40 gallon tank, and this idiot had about 5 clownfish, a mandarin, a koran angel, and a bunch of other fish. i walked in after not being in the office for a year and freaked out.

then i went down to the big fish (livestock) market with our office manager. she LOVES marine fish and has a tank of her own. we went into one store and she literally got chased out. apparently most fish sellers in the market think she works for the Wildlife department, as she always goes in and bitches people out, and one time the wildlife officers came in and shut a place down a few hours after she left (she hadnt called), but she was angry because she saw some extremely rare corals and fish jammed into a tank.

honestly though...things are just done differently out there. many people are just struggling to survive, and view the ocean as an easy thing to rape and pillage.

living in north america, many of us dont realize how hard it is to make a living in some of these countries. obviously i dont agree with their methods, and i absolutely hate it, but at the same time they are just trying to live. unfortunately it's unavoidable, as they will always need to eat, and the ocean will always be in their backyard.

[cav~firez22]

Cites from the Phillipines, does not take much to get, considering that when the collector/supplier applys for the Cites, they slip a little cash in as a bribe, and they get their Cites.

All the beautiful fish that we like come from 3rd world countries (except Hawaii). and in these countrys, the "laws" are more catering to the money.

Its quite unfortunat, but, unless we ALL stop buying fish (not gonna happen here) then there will still be a demand for the product.

On a side note, i have not seen any videos that look like they are recent, ie. later than the 80s, unless their technoloy is crap over there.

just my 2 cents.

We should go find all those dynamite/cyanide fisherman and give em a good canadian Ass Woopin.

Its terrible that nothing in the Philippines is protected. The reefs are not going to last much longer like that

Haha, even better would be to make them injest it all. and watch.

Could be fun!.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by cav~firez22

Cites from the Phillipines, does not take much to get, considering that when the collector/supplier applys for the Cites, they slip a little cash in as a bribe, and they get their Cites.

All the beautiful fish that we like come from 3rd world countries (except Hawaii). and in these countrys, the "laws" are more catering to the money.

Its quite unfortunat, but, unless we ALL stop buying fish (not gonna happen here) then there will still be a demand for the product.

On a side note, i have not seen any videos that look like they are recent, ie. later than the 80s, unless their technoloy is crap over there.

just my 2 cents.




Haha, even better would be to make them injest it all. and watch.

Could be fun!.

Most are from the 90's. I knew that when I posted because as I said this wasn't to debate anything. Yes things are better than the 90's and especially the 80's. I know that but that doesn't mean it doesn't still happen.

Like I said, this wasn't to 'start anything' or put the hobby down. It was all just about awareness.

A day after posting, I wish I wouldn't have. I know better than to post stuff like this here but I was so frustrated after hearing what an employee was telling customers when the customer asked if any of their fish were caught with cyanide..."thats a myth and doesn't happen". I was also kind of bored at the time, so I posted. Again...should post stuff like this here

This hobby actually is NOT EVEN CLOSE to being as destructive as fishing for food, farming and chemical dumping is to the oceans. The reefs in Australia are going fast because of farming. The reefs in the Caribbean are being decimated by raw sewage. The reefs here in Canada are destroyed by overfishing and trawling...we like to blame seals for our overfishing though

So the hobby is not even close to being the major problem but was is a concern is how fast fishes are declining. The hobby needs to eventually become self sustainable through breeding or it will no longer exist. Someone told me today about how they had been to Hawaii twice diving and never seen a Yellow Tang.

The US last week started a bill that would severely limit importation of commercial fishes. I am all for it because this would mean breeding would have to be looked at. Yellow Tangs have been bred already (although not very successfully) so it can be done. The problem is that right now there is absolutely no reason to put the money into it.

Just want to make this clear before people start the big debate. The Philippines are starting to do a great job of policing the cyanide fishers and actually put them in jail but for hobbyists just deny it happens is so ridiculous.