New Cleaner Wrasse

naesco · #1 01-30-2009, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoot

What is considered long term?

A week or two to a couple of months.
The cleaner wrasse will be out and about as normal and the next day its gone. There are rare exceptions and unfortunately most reefers are reluctant to post their failures (often multiple attempts to keep them). Some reefers don't post because they cant take posts like JGs. The very rare successful keeper of cleaner wrasse are very happy to post their success. Human nature, eh.

Every author of books in the marine hobby will confirm the same and will tell you they are best left in the ocean to do their cleaning duties.
Most LFS staff will tell you the same as well. No one will tell you they are easy to keep.

0sprey · #2 01-30-2009, 05:04 AM

For me, the biggest problem with purchasing cleaner wrasses is the fact that they are such an important species in the wild. It's kinda irresponsible, especially with so many cheap, hardy alternatives out there.
Just my two cents.
Let us know how the little guy fares.

GreenSpottedPuffer · #3 01-31-2009, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0sprey

For me, the biggest problem with purchasing cleaner wrasses is the fact that they are such an important species in the wild. It's kinda irresponsible, especially with so many cheap, hardy alternatives out there.
Just my two cents.
Let us know how the little guy fares.

I agree to a point. But unfortunately most people who argue these ethical points are just way too hypocritical. If you have a tank, you have contributed to a reefs destruction in some way. You have fish in an unnatural environment.

I am all for ethical fish/coral collection and argue it here all the time. I wish more could be done to make certain species less likely to die suddenly in our tanks because they were caught by poison. But in the end, if I really cared as much as I often think I do, I would have given this hobby up so long ago. The day I realized what this hobby does to the reefs around the world should have been enough to discourage me from buying ANY fish or coral. But it hasn't.

Apparently I am selfish enough to continue.

Personally I care a heck of a lot more about how fish are caught but don't feel any species should NOT be caught or kept other than threatened or endangered fish. It just starts to get way too hypocritical when you start to argue what fish should and shouldn't be kept.

A healthy 4" cleaner wrasse in a 180G tank may not have its natural diet but in that same tank a 16" Naso Tang has even less space in comparison. How can you argue that the cleaner wrasse should not be kept in the tank unless you also argue that Naso shouldn't be kept in the tank? Either way its less than ideal yet people will say the cleaner wrasse is unethical

lastlight · #4 01-31-2009, 07:24 AM

Well put! I agree 100%. None of us are saints and obviously we share the guilt yet cannot quit this hobby.

I also wonder how you can even ENJOY being a member here Naesco when nearly everything I read by you has this same flavor. That's not a personal attack but seriously what motivates you to police the forums in this way? There's nothing ethical about you keeping a tank whatsoever. There may be different shades of ethical but we're all guilty to some degree.

naesco · #5 01-31-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lastlight

Well put! I agree 100%. None of us are saints and obviously we share the guilt yet cannot quit this hobby.

I also wonder how you can even ENJOY being a member here Naesco when nearly everything I read by you has this same flavor. That's not a personal attack but seriously what motivates you to police the forums in this way? There's nothing ethical about you keeping a tank whatsoever. There may be different shades of ethical but we're all guilty to some degree.

The motivation is very simple and I don"t look at it as policing the forum.
Many newbies make a purchase of an unsuitable species and post, which post is followed by congratulatory posts and posts for other newbies desiring the same species.

By entering a thread such as this, I have the opportunity of putting forth the opinion of experts like Scott Michael and Robert Fenner.
Some readers get ****ed off because they are going to do what they want to do anyway.
Others are going to re think their purchase and that is the reason I post.

lastlight · #6 01-31-2009, 04:26 PM

I can respect that. PM'd you. If you're enjoying yourself and prevent a few reefers willing to accept the fact they can't keep x in tank y...more power to ya. I do see others offering similar advice like I said in my PM...maybe with a slightly less authoritative tone which comes off differently.

0sprey · #7 01-31-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

I agree to a point. But unfortunately most people who argue these ethical points are just way too hypocritical. If you have a tank, you have contributed to a reefs destruction in some way. You have fish in an unnatural environment.
I am all for ethical fish/coral collection and argue it here all the time. I wish more could be done to make certain species less likely to die suddenly in our tanks because they were caught by poison. But in the end, if I really cared as much as I often think I do, I would have given this hobby up so long ago. The day I realized what this hobby does to the reefs around the world should have been enough to discourage me from buying ANY fish or coral. But it hasn't.
Apparently I am selfish enough to continue.

My list of fish that shouldn't be kept in captivity regardless of longevity is pretty short. There's a big difference between sustainable harvest of a common species and harvesting a keystone species. Without cleaner wrasses, the ecology of the reef crumbles.
It's like the difference between sustainable softwood harvesting and wholescale clearcutting of old-growth rainforest. Both technically destroy trees and have some ecological impact, but one area will recover, and the other won't.

I believe that it is possible to practise marine fishkeeping in a more responsible manner, if we're careful. Buying frags instead of corals fresh from the reef, avoiding endangered/keystone species, that kind of thing.

Still selfish? Yeah, probably. Really, when you get down to it, 'sustainability' is just a catchphrase for continuing to do what we want while trying to minimize the impact. But I think that a conscientious aquarist can actually do a lot of good- both for the hobby and the environment as a whole.

fishytime · #8 02-01-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naesco

The motivation is very simple and I don"t look at it as policing the forum.

????? Look at your avatar???

0sprey · #9 02-01-2009, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishytime

????? Look at your avatar???

lol...
+1

Johnny Reefer · #10 01-30-2009, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoot

What is considered long term?

Quote:

Originally Posted by naesco

A week or two to a couple of months. ....There are rare exceptions....

I've had three Cleaner Wrasses in 4 years. Been in the SW hobby only 4 years, so not all that experienced. First Cleaner was bought Dec 9/05 (I keep a log) and died Dec/06. Why? I moved. Cleaner didn't survive the bucket trip. But one year ain't bad. Second Cleaner was bought May/07 and died the same day. Why? I neglected to feed the resident fish first. My Bursa Trigger (RIP) ate the Cleaner for dinner when the lights came on. Third Cleaner was bought Aug 2/08 and still going strong. Six months. Rare? If I can do it twice beyond a week or two, or a couple of months, I should start buying lottery tickets again for that rare winfall. Not saying everyone should now go out and buy a Cleaner Wrasse, but I wouldn't say it's rare, under that definition of long term.

Cheers,