How many QT new or sick fish for ich?

[Patrice]

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

I also kind of wonder how the myth that a fallow tank with have no ich after 6-8 weeks??? I did a search on google scholar a while back and there was a study where ich lived for almost 3 months without a host and then they stopped the study. They don't even know how long that strain was going to make it with NO FISH. So treating for 8 weeks and then putting the fish back in the tank may not do a thing. It will get the numbers of ich way down but not necessarily eliminate it.

Quarantine can only help. That I am sure. However, what GreenSpottedPuffer said about QT time is interesting. For how long do you QT your fish? If what he said is right, my QT give me nothing.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by Patrice

Quarantine can only help. That I am sure. However, what GreenSpottedPuffer said about QT time is interesting. For how long do you QT your fish? If what he said is right, my QT give me nothing.

Well QT always does something and always helps. My belief is that it gives the fish a chance to get strong and healthy enough not keep ich away.

The point was that if you do a quick search with google scholar, you can find all kinds of studies where ich lived without a host for longer than 6 weeks...in one it was almost 3 months and then they stopped the experiment. So I was saying in that case, your tank may still not be ich free even after going through all the pain of QT for 8 weeks. I hear it quite often..."I had my tank fishless for 8 weeks and I still get ich"...thats because ich can live longer without a host. I am not sure where the 8 week thing came from. I assume most will die after 6-8 weeks without a host.

[my2rotties]

How do we know it does not live inside a fish's stomach much like a tapeworm? Could ick be ingested and lie dormant inside the host to be expelled in feces. I did some research and found nothing to confirm or dismiss the theory. Maybe they attach to food when they are mobile and just wait it out inside the fish. I could explain why it seems to show up for no reason at all sometimes. There are many insect larvae or eggs that can stay dormant for years or decades and appear when conditions are just right.

I'm just grasping at straws and thinking aloud I suppose.

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

Actually something else that has been kind of brought up is quarantine tanks and hospital tanks--different things. My QT tank (rubbermaid) is full of LR, macro algae, crabs, ect. My hospital tank is a different rubbermaid that stays dry in case I need it.

I use 40G rubbermaids since I find them a bit easier to have around than a 40G tank and IMO a 10G is WAY too small to QT most any fish.

I also keep a sponge in my DT sump that can be used in the hospital tank as a filter if needed. If you do this though, make sure you "rinse" out the sponge every now and then (I do it every water change) to make sure it doesn't accumulate detritus and large amounts of bacteria that will lead to high nitrates. You just need it to have enough bacteria to keep a hospital tank cycled...although most meds will kill the filter anyways

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

Well QT always does something and always helps. My belief is that it gives the fish a chance to get strong and healthy enough not keep ich away.

The point was that if you do a quick search with google scholar, you can find all kinds of studies where ich lived without a host for longer than 6 weeks...in one it was almost 3 months and then they stopped the experiment. So I was saying in that case, your tank may still not be ich free even after going through all the pain of QT for 8 weeks. I hear it quite often..."I had my tank fishless for 8 weeks and I still get ich"...thats because ich can live longer without a host. I am not sure where the 8 week thing came from. I assume most will die after 6-8 weeks without a host.

[Slick Fork]

Could you please point us to where you found the article stating Ich can live without a host for 3 months? Here is what I base my quarantine practices on

http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html

I like this site because it cites SCIENTIFIC studies from multiple sources. I don't mean to be rude, but "I read somewhere..." just doesn't cut it. Without backup in the form of sources/research, all it is is an opinion. I googled Marine Ich and couldn't find a single site agreeing with your 3 month hypothesis.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by Slick Fork

Could you please point us to where you found the article stating Ich can live without a host for 3 months? Here is what I base my quarantine practices on

http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html

I like this site because it cites SCIENTIFIC studies from multiple sources. I don't mean to be rude, but "I read somewhere..." just doesn't cut it. Without backup in the form of sources/research, all it is is an opinion. I googled Marine Ich and couldn't find a single site agreeing with your 3 month hypothesis.

Are you on google scholar? I am not going to go back through the studies I looked at but if you go on RC and ask you will find someone I am sure who can point you to the exact one.

"I don't mean to be rude" but Take it or leave it...I don't care if it cuts it or not for you. Its a study that I believe was done a few years back and that was on of the findings. Think whatever you may, doesn't matter to me.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Actually here is one study about a new strain of ich showing how it can now survive in cold waters. It was found in Japan and is a great example of how adaptable this parasite (like any) can be.

http://www.int-res.com/articles/dao/43/d043p211.pdf

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by Slick Fork

Could you please point us to where you found the article stating Ich can live without a host for 3 months? Here is what I base my quarantine practices on

http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html

I like this site because it cites SCIENTIFIC studies from multiple sources. I don't mean to be rude, but "I read somewhere..." just doesn't cut it. Without backup in the form of sources/research, all it is is an opinion. I googled Marine Ich and couldn't find a single site agreeing with your 3 month hypothesis.

FWIW, most of this is from the mid 90's. Many new strains of ich have been found since then. And no, I am not going to find you a link to prove that. You can do a search

[StirCrazy]

everything I have read said the cyst stage can last from 3 to 28 days, then the rest of the life cycle is measured in hours upto a few days.

to get a Ich free tank you much remove any "host" for a min of 6 weeks and all the ich will have died, then the only way to get it back is to introduce it on a fish.

if you quarenteen for 6 weeks and there is no sign of Ich, then you won't get it.

Steve

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

everything I have read said the cyst stage can last from 3 to 28 days, then the rest of the life cycle is measured in hours upto a few days.

to get a Ich free tank you much remove any "host" for a min of 6 weeks and all the ich will have died, then the only way to get it back is to introduce it on a fish.

if you quarenteen for 6 weeks and there is no sign of Ich, then you won't get it.

Steve

Not true. Ich can live much longer without a host. I will not continue to argue it though, it gets me nowhere. I simply think its good for people to know that not every strain of ich dies off in 6 weeks. I think too many people seem to think there is one single strain of ich that acts/adapts the exact same in every situation. I know someone on RC with the exact study/data but I will have to check with him first if I can use his name. He is a biologist who I trust 100%, not to mention the study was a very well conducted, controlled one tat involved ich. Now the study was not to find out how long ich can live without a host but after almost 3 months fishless and ich still surviving it was an interesting find.

Anyways...saturday night...time to go out!