sand or bare glass bottom?

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Whatigot

I think that unless you do it properly, dsb's have no merit.

Why is it that so many like James Tullock in my living microcosm book speak so highly of dsbs?

He does say that you need to install it properly and have enough "critters" to maintain it for you but even with changing it every few years, sounds a lot easier than all that maintenance you are doing.

Man, thats a lot of unnecessary work IMO.

My first tank was a 12 gallon aquapod, no skimmer, MASSIVE bioload and a DSB.
That tank was a brick, I credit the ability of that thing to keep everything I ever put into it alive to the dsb that it had.
I had 2 clowns, clown goby, gramma, red reef star, peppermint shrimps and a boxfish not to mention a tonne of coral (all came with it when I bought it and I didn't know better then).
The dsb in that thing was probably 5 years old and it provided food, calcium and trace elements and biological filtration for the overcrowded tank perfectly.
I would NEVER set up a nano tank without one now period.

So are you saying my nano will fail because I,m bare. What exactly does the sandbed provide my nano for stability that my bare
bottom does not?

And FWIW, I have used sand beds and bare in previous tanks, including a couple inches in my just down 90g and my 170 that was once featured back in 01 on RC.
Thanks

[Whatigot]

Originally Posted by Doug

So are you saying my nano will fail because I,m bare. What exactly does the sandbed provide my nano for stability that my bare
bottom does not?

And FWIW, I have used sand beds and bare in previous tanks, including a couple inches in my just down 90g and my 170 that was once featured back in 01 on RC.
Thanks

Congrats on being featured on RC 8 years ago...lol
I stated that my exceptionally overstocked, low tech nano functioned seamlessly with a dsb, where do you see anyone saying that a "nano" (and you are being very general here, I was being very specific) won't work without a dsb?

where?

and i specified a couple fo times in this thread where a dsb is handy, reread the whole thread please as you must have missed it when you read it before your last comment.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Whatigot

Congrats on being featured on RC 8 years ago...lol

I just mention that, to show I,m also a fan of dsb. Not sure whats funny about it.

I stated that my exceptionally overstocked, low tech nano functioned seamlessly with a dsb, where do you see anyone saying that a "nano" (and you are being very general here, I was being very specific) won't work without a dsb?

where?

I was asking a question as you said I would NEVER, {big letters}, set up a nano without one, thats all.

and i specified a couple fo times in this thread where a dsb is handy, reread the whole thread please as you must have missed it when you read it before your last comment.

I would think I know a fair bit about a dsb, just debating the need for it to provide stability in any specific aquarium.

Anyways, I just wrote a large piece on sandbeds but took it out. Been in enough of these discussions over the years and there,s plenty of info on them in the RC threads, and in our links on here for those that wish to read up on them.

I agree with the latter posts, {whatever method you use, research it and do it right.}

[mark]

Just to comment on DSBs, they're not the big bad scary things they're lately being made as. Had a 4-6" for about 3 years, no special efforts and when I took it down, no sludge or funk.

[reefermadness]

What ever method you use.......do research and do it right!

[Canadian]

Originally Posted by reefermadness

What ever method you use.......do research and do it right!

Well said.

If you choose to employ a DSB make sure you re-stock it with critters and don't add things like sand-sifting stars, sand dollars, etc. And don't be surprised if over time you end up with an accumulation of phosphate and some kind of algae problem.

If you go BB be sure you make the necessary investments for an incredible skimmer, high flow (with a well designed flow scheme and minimal LR), and preferably a coast-to-coast overflow to ensure that as much suspended detritus makes it to the skimmer as possible. Then be sure siphon out detritus every week (I use an Eheim Sludge Extractor which works great for this with a small modification).

The one thing I will say in comparison between BB and a SSB is that when I had a SSB I had more coralline algae growth. Without sand I get very little coralline algae growing on the glass or back panel but my coral growth has been unaffected. I don't know how this is possible or what could possibly explain the difference though other than maybe my BB tank is nutrient limited and the SSB was helping store and leach some small amounts of nitrate to help fuel the coralline growth.

[Marlin65]

Originally Posted by Canadian

Well said.

If you choose to employ a DSB make sure you re-stock it with critters and don't add things like sand-sifting stars, sand dollars, etc. And don't be surprised if over time you end up with an accumulation of phosphate and some kind of algae problem.

If you go BB be sure you make the necessary investments for an incredible skimmer, high flow (with a well designed flow scheme and minimal LR), and preferably a coast-to-coast overflow to ensure that as much suspended detritus makes it to the skimmer as possible. Then be sure siphon out detritus every week (I use an Eheim Sludge Extractor which works great for this with a small modification).

The one thing I will say in comparison between BB and a SSB is that when I had a SSB I had more coralline algae growth. Without sand I get very little coralline algae growing on the glass or back panel but my coral growth has been unaffected. I don't know how this is possible or what could possibly explain the difference though other than maybe my BB tank is nutrient limited and the SSB was helping store and leach some small amounts of nitrate to help fuel the coralline growth.

Great post interesting info don't agree with the sand siffting though. Did you have the same light in each of your BB and SSB tanks? I find the watts and K's play a big part in the coraline growth.

[kodak]

Well... I've had an established 10g BB nano running for about 2 months now, it was/is a friends tank as for maintaining the tank for the last 2 months, I've had no major issues to speak of.. I am new to salt but I have kept african cichlids almost exclusively for the past 9-10 years.. Since this neat little salt tank was transplanted into my livingroom, already containing 6x 6 foot cichlid tanks and a 72g as well, not to mention one of the bedrooms... The little tank started to grow on me and the maintenance was not all that much for a tank of this size. I started to get a little curious of how difficult it would be to get one going... The tank & filters were just sitting around, so I set it up.. It's a 10g with 2x hob filters, live rock in one HOB, Caulerpain and small bag of aragonite in the other (all from a friends established tank) 15lbs LR from that same established tank, and water from the same tank, I have a single clown fish and a single pom pom crab, a few very small things on the LR besides a bit of coraline algae..

I like the idea of sand as far as asthetics are concerned, plus the extra critters in the sandbed. Still thinking....

[mark]

Canadian, I'm BB lots of coralline, bottom is covered where lit.

[Canadian]

Originally Posted by mark

Canadian, I'm BB lots of coralline, bottom is covered where lit.

Originally Posted by Marlin65

Great post interesting info don't agree with the sand siffting though. Did you have the same light in each of your BB and SSB tanks? I find the watts and K's play a big part in the coraline growth.

Yeah I've had several reef tanks over the past 10 years and they've all been DSB or SSB. I've always had uncontrollable coralline algae growth. Since starting this BB tank a year ago I have had sporadic coralline algae growth. At one point in time when I moved several months ago I re-set up the tank with a SSB for aesthetics. In the first few weeks I had a spurt of coralline growth on the back panel but I also saw how much crap was accumulating in the sand bed (and yes I had lots of nassarius snails, ceriths, hermits, etc.) so I yanked it all. Since then my coralline growth has again diminished on the glass but does grow on the rocks. Coral growth remains the same. I did/do suffer from some pale coloration of some of my SPS which may be due to a very low nutrient system and is the only explanation I can come up with for the lack of coralline growth.

As far as adding sand sifting stars and sand dollars to a DSB is concerned: take a look at the recommendations for proper husbandry of a DSB by Ron Shimek. Firstly, both white sand sifting stars and sand dollars are generally inappropriate for a reef aquarium - they decimate the infauna in a sand bed and tend to then slowly starve. Secondly, adding anything other than detrivores to a DSB is counterproductive. If you're adding things to "stir" the top layer that's one thing, but if you're adding things that aggressively consume the infauna in the sand bed then you're defeating its purpose of assimilating waste as quickly as possible so it can be processed by bacteria. The pods, worms, microstars, etc. that sand sifting stars and sand dollars are eating are exactly what need to be left in a DSB to help consume waste so your DSB can function efficiently and not solidify.