HLLE - Miracle Mud/Feeding experiment

[andrewsk]

I have been reading about the Reef Safe Ick cure test on Reef Central where they tested 4 or 5 "Reef Safe" products to see which ones harmed Xena frags and which did not.

I was thinking that it would be good to try some similar testing myself for the products I use or am thinking of using.

What I would like to do, since it has recently been a problem for me is to try to get some more information on HLLE, what causes it and how to cure/prevent it.

Many people claim that diet will help prevent/fix HLLE. Others swear by Miracle Mud, others call it bunk (Albert?!)

What I was thinking was you could do the following:

Get 2 - 30 tanks, each seperated into 3 sections by dividers that allow water to flow through, but not food. (So you have 6 compartments in total.)

Both tanks are filtered exactly the same (To be determined) except one has the addidtional filtration of Miracle Mud in an external refugium.

Buy 6 or 12 fish of the same size that develop HLLE easily (like a Hippo Tang. Gold's has a bunch of small ones right now that are <1 inch) and place 1 or 2 in each compartment.

Compartment 1 in each tank is Fed Low Quality Generic Flake only
Compartment 2 in each tank is Fed Spectrum Pellets only
Compartment 3 in each tank is Fed Spectrum Pellets, Mysis and Algae All soaked with Vitamins and Selcon

Fish are monitored to see if HLLE develops. If it does, part 2 of the experiment COULD be to switch diets and tanks to see if it reverses for any of the fish.

This is just my first thoughts and ideas of what I would like to try sometime.

What do you think? Would this be a worthwhile thing to start up?

Keith

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

It would be a neat expt. but expensive. Aren't blue tangs over $50 each, even for the small ones? Also, I was under the impression that it took a long time to get this disease & the fish are usually bigger, not tiny, when they get it. Therefore, 10g or so is nowhere near big enough for a fast swimming fish like a tang.

Just my thoughts,

Anthony

[andrewsk]

Originally Posted by SeaHorse_Fanatic

It would be a neat expt. but expensive. Aren't blue tangs over $50 each, even for the small ones? Also, I was under the impression that it took a long time to get this disease & the fish are usually bigger, not tiny, when they get it. Therefore, 10g or so is nowhere near big enough for a fast swimming fish like a tang.

Just my thoughts,

Anthony

I had a small tang that had it and it came on pretty quick (if 2 months is quick). I do agree on the 10 gallons size, but I have seen them in Nanos before, although they were small fish (1 inch). (God knows what they did with them when they got bigger)

I guess you could go up to 45's (15 each). Anthing Larger and I would have a hard time finding space.

[albert_dao]

Heh, I sold them all over the weekend... $30 a pop.


Anyway, I've owned several tangs over the years and have never run into HLLE myself. I'm a big fan of pellets and mysis though and they all get fed 2-10 times a day, pending on how often I walk by the tank.

[Veng68]

I read somewhere that HLLE may be caused by high levels of nitrate in the aquarium system.

I guess that's why miricle mud systems may help with the HLLE because it reduces the nitrates in the system.

Cheers,
Vic [veng68]

[andrewsk]

Originally Posted by Veng68

I read somewhere that HLLE may be caused by high levels of nitrate in the aquarium system.

I guess that's why miricle mud systems may help with the HLLE because it reduces the nitrates in the system.

Cheers,
Vic [veng68]

Interesting. In that case, a remote Deep Sand Bed would have the same effect.

[Pescador]

My Blue and Purple tang had HLLE in my 120 with a 60g mud sump. It gradually kept getting worse over the last 4 years even with Selcon and a variety of foods.

Over the last year it has just about completely reversed in the 220g. Still have a mud sump (110g) and quit using Selcon. Most of the electronics are the same and I use a grounding probe. I do use a Phosban reactor now but I've never had detectable nitrates anyway.


I feed them mysis, Formula flake and Cyclop-eeze. I don't know but maybe less stress in the bigger tank? There are only six fish. Could be ammo for the Tang police.

[andrewsk]

Also very interesting. Thanks.

That is why it would be so interesting to set up SOME type of HLLE experiment. People find ways to fix the problem but are never certain exactly what it was that caused the reversal.

My friend swears his reversed when he switched to Spectrum Foods.

So far we have claims and disclaimers for:

Selcon
Vitamins
Miracle Mud
Larger Tanks
Grounding Probes

How great would it be to have 40 tangs with HLLE in 5 seperate systems and test all of these on them!

Albert, Can you get me a deal on 40 Tangs?

Originally Posted by Pescador

My Blue and Purple tang had HLLE in my 120 with a 60g mud sump. It gradually kept getting worse over the last 4 years even with Selcon and a variety of foods.

Over the last year it has just about completely reversed in the 220g. Still have a mud sump (110g) and quit using Selcon. Most of the electronics are the same and I use a grounding probe. I do use a Phosban reactor now but I've never had detectable nitrates anyway.


I feed them mysis, Formula flake and Cyclop-eeze. I don't know but maybe less stress in the bigger tank? There are only six fish. Could be ammo for the Tang police.

[albert_dao]

haha, I don't even think I can get that many in!