Skimmers

[Bob I]

Originally Posted by Samw

I think the opinion that Steve was referring to was your opinion that everyone who uses a skimmer in a small tank is silly. I think the people who use skimmers in small tanks also are entitled to some respect as well.

Sam when I look at my original post it states "in my humble opinion a skimmer on a small tank is silly" In my mind that says it is my opinion, and as such it is valid. You may accept it or discard it, but don't insult me. I said that if you want to waste money for a skimmer on a small tank, you are welcome to do that. I think I am still giving those who do that the required respect. I never did say that the person doing so is silly. I suppose the distinction between an action being seen as silly, and a person being silly is difficult to discern.
That is the problem with the printed word. Often intent is unknown. That is why the smilies on the old board will be missed by me.

[Samw]

Originally Posted by Bob I

That is why the smilies on the old board will be missed by me.

Bob, smilies are still there. You can find them in the Standard Editor. To use the Standard Editor, you have to go to the User Control Panel and change your options.

[Bob I]

Thanks Sam, I will have look to see if I can locate them.

[Bob I]

Okay great, I have found them. Now I wonder how many other people have missed them

[KrazyKuch]

to this new system.....I believe it's not neccessary to have a skimmer on any tank but after having one and seeing what it pulls out of the water I would never go without one on any tank!!!

[Ruth]

KK I think that "most" people do run a skimmer on their tanks. I chose not to on my smaller tanks because water changes are a snap. Personally on anything larger than a 30g tank I would run a skimmer because you are right, they do pull a lot of smelly stuff out of the tank. Bob and others have success with not using them and also not doing significant water changes. I think that is great and just show the vast range of experiences in this hobby. I have tried to run a 77g with a crap skimmer that might as well not have been there and canister filters - it was an algea and cyno machine and actually made me quit the hobby for a year it was so frustrating. Others such as Bev and Bob and more have great success keeping reefs using these methods so who is to say it is wrong or silly or whatever.
As far as "silly" goes - we are all silly - imagine trying to keep creatures in glass boxes that really belong in the ocean simply for our own enjoyment - now that is silly!

[Bob I]

Originally Posted by KrazyKuch

to this new system.....I believe it's not neccessary to have a skimmer on any tank but after having one and seeing what it pulls out of the water I would never go without one on any tank!!!

In a sense we are hijacking this thread, but what the H, it increases my post count.

I think you have hit on what a skimmer actually does. Skimmers basically interrupt natural decomposition of proteinaceous materials by removing large protein molecules before the natural dissolution of those molecules into nitrogenous compounds occur. That is all they do. Natural laws of physics state that they cannot increase the oxygen content of the water. (sorry Sam, still can't buy your argument}. They do not remove Phospates, or other contaminants.

That is all I will say on this matter. If anyone can prove that any of this is not true, I would welcome the input, but please make it proof NOT just opinion.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Bob I

I think you have hit on what a skimmer actually does. Skimmers basically interrupt natural decomposition of proteinaceous materials by removing large protein molecules before the natural dissolution of those molecules into nitrogenous compounds occur.

ok so by doing this is it not also removing the organic phosphates bound in that organic mater and preventing it from being released as inorganic phosphate during the decay process?

so basically a skimmer is removing phosphates.

Originally Posted by Bob I

That is all they do. Natural laws of physics state that they cannot increase the oxygen content of the water. (sorry Sam, still can't buy your argument}.

actually a bubbler in a tank will raise the O2 content also as every little bubble made is now a water/air surface interface. while not as efficient as having a turbulent water surface it still increases O2 levels, a skimmer is just basically a bubbler on steroids and does a very good job of increasing O2

Originally Posted by Bob I

They do not remove Phospates, or other contaminants.

See your first statement, do you not consider decaying organic matter contaminants? but yes aside from Phosphates they do remove several other things.

Originally Posted by Bob I

That is all I will say on this matter. If anyone can prove that any of this is not true, I would welcome the input, but please make it proof NOT just opinion.

Ok there was a test done on various skimmers and they effectiveness of removing phosphates, metals, ect from the tank water. I will find it for you to read. no time right now as I have to get out of here and Finnish my Christmas shopping

Steve

[Bob I]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

actually a bubbler in a tank will raise the O2 content also as every little bubble made is now a water/air surface interface. while not as efficient as having a turbulent water surface it still increases O2 levels, a skimmer is just basically a bubbler on steroids and does a very good job of increasing O2

Steve

I am afraid that may sound good, but there is a problem with it. If there was an air/water interface all the bubbles would disappear before reaching the surface. There is a serious flaw in that argument.

And now that I see that there is agitation within the skimmer so theoretically oxygen gets taken up, I am bothered by another thing. How about the oxygen depletion caused by beating the crap out of the water with an impeller causing the bubbles in the first place
I just cannot see how there would be in increase in oxygen content.

[Samw]

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/eb/index.php

"Figure 1 shows the oxygen dynamics of Tank 1 in operation without a skimmer. Figure 2 shows the oxygen dynamics of Tank 2 with a skimmer in operation."

"I had assumed (wrongfully) that oxygen was maintained at high levels through the use of two powerheads that agitated the water's surface. However, once the lights went out and photosynthesis stopped, oxygen levels dropped quickly from a high of 78.7% of saturation to a hypoxic low of 16% of saturation. "

Notice the skimmer took the tank from 16% to about 80+% with only the addition of a skimmer and all else constant in Tank 1. In Tank 3, the tank wasn't oxygen starved at any time so it was more difficult to see the effect of the skimmer since his tank was never low in DO even at night. It would have been useful to see the effect of a skimmer on a large tank that has a low DO level at night.

I think some people have low DO levels at night and never know it. It seems that clownfish can survive at 16% for some time whereas I'm quite sure angels can't. This explains why I've lost angels the morning after I forgot to turn my venturi back on in a skimmerless tank.