omg... the Ich is back . What's the deal?!?!? I need help.

[OCDP]

hmm, new thought again hah... the QT will need to cycle..... right? so i pretty much am screwed even if i decide to go qt...

[danny zubot]

Not really, I just used tank water from my main tank. I also picked up some LR rubble from Wai's to use for bio support. You don't need this if you can use some kind of etablished filter media. Even a piece or two of base rock will work fine. Consider this, it will take three days of changing out water in the Q-tank to achieve the lowered salinity. This means at least 3-4 water changes, resulting in pretty healthy water, I buys you some time.

[OCDP]

hm well I have a 20g tank.. I mean I could take water from there, but that would be like... half the tank

Soo if I did do that, I would just be doing a nice big watercahnge on the display tank... ?

I have an Aquaclear 150 (small) on the 20g.. it has ONE small piece of sponge in there, but it hasn't been in for very long.. 3 weeks? maybe longer.. but it's fairly small.

I need to get a heater, 10g tank (can all 4 of my fish go in there?) , my hydrometer (will this work?) .... and something for flow... ?

How hard is it exactly to do the hyposalinity with a hydrometer.. makes me a little nervous.

[bulletsworld]

Originally Posted by OCDP

I will try to setup a QT for my fish... I just dont know where the tank will go.... I just need to have fish to look at, 6 weeks is too long.

*Patience is the key to this hobby to be successful. You would need to leave your main tank to fallow for at least 6weeks or else why bother doing treatment on your fish, cause then they will go back into a tank and will become infected again. (Ich finding a host).

Originally Posted by OCDP

So, if I choose to buy the supplies for QT, hoping I can do this cheap.. I am broke... what should I treat? hyposalinity? with a hydrometer? is that risky ? seems like it could be... and I definitely can't afford a refractometer (sp)

You could perhaps ask local reefers if they have any spare supplies kicking around that you can borrow and at a later time when you have more funds you can purchase the stuff you need for a QT used on buy/sell hardware forum.

If you do treatment of Hyposalinity it’s important to use a rafractometer as the plastic hydrometers are not accurate. Since your new to Hyposalinity treatment & there is many cautions you must take and monitoring, perhaps in your case, depending on amount & type of fish you are treating (Please post me this info) As well as your not sure if its ONLY ich that you may have, then I would suggest you to go with, Coppersafe product ($10 or less at any LFS)…NOT Cupramine but “Coppersafe” Although you do need a copper test kit (NOTE: get only the test kit from Seachem to monitor this copper) , its cheaper then a refractometer by far and Coppersafe (depends of fish species being treated) Is really easy to administer when correctly following the directions on the bottle. Also what I like about Coppersafe (NOT Cupramine ) is that unlike Cupramine (falls out of solution-has to be monitored VERY closely), Coppersafe copper stays in the water for 30days after you completed the dose. Then after the 30days, you do the steps to dilute the copper in this QT but leave the fish at least for another 10days in the tank, so you can monitor the fish (Parasite Free) as well as, giving your main tank the time (6Weeks) to fallow.

If you need step by step instruction I would be happy to assist you with it over the phone. Let me know.

Originally Posted by OCDP

Or would I treat with meds?? Would I treat all the fish in my tank? Or just the clowns??

Mentioned above. Treat ALL fish! Don’t want to miss anything and also don’t want a go through it again do ya?

Originally Posted by OCDP

**Edit** : Also, I am going to BC next Thursday and will be back on the Monday, I won't be able to get the QT up and running and start treatment until then (if I can go through with this) ... will this be OK???? I am worried it might be too long, but then again.. if I can set it up, I can get them in there by Tuesday evening.

Questions for you….

1. What size tank are your fish in now?
2. Is there any inverts in there?
3. How many fish do you have?
4. What species of fish, list?
5. Are the fish all eating?
6. Do the fish show signs of lethargic breathing?
7. Do they swim close to the surface of tank?
8. Do your fish scratch on rocks or sand?
9. Do your fish dart around in tank?
10. Can you supply pictures? Perhaps will give a better idea to the severity of infection.

Also to…Forgot to mention. Yes you do NEED established media for a quarantine tank setup, that’s the MOST important part. You need this to cheat the new tank setup cycle. Although if not done properly you can experience a mini cycle. To get established media if you don’t have, you can ask fellow reefers if you can borrow established media since you’re to far from me.

More questions for you…..

1. Are you running a skimmer on your current tank?
2. How long has your tank been running for?
3. How much live rock do you have?



O.k Off to lunch I go… Will check back with ya.

[danny zubot]

Scott, improvise man! Remember that with no fish in your main tank there is less bioload. My skimmer hasn't taken much out of my main tank since the fish have been gone. If you have a power head in the main tank I'd just put the aquaclear on the Q-tank. If you absolutely can't get your hands on a refractometer, I have an old glass lab hydrometer you can use. I'll even chart where you need to be against my refractometer for the treatment.

[OCDP]

Okay... let me try and do this in the correct order hehe

I am aware the tank must be left fishless for 6+ weeks.. I was simply saying if I can QT them myself, I will.. so I have fish to at least look at and to have experience in removing ICH as well. Just to clarify

I think I can find a 10g tank, heater, and a HOB filter for a decent price, I realize now it's critical to have, and would rather have my own at home for good.

So you think I should do coppersafe instead of hypo? I am fine with that, no problems.. just a couple questions. How effective will the coppersafe be? Will it further stress my fish (i have heard copper is hard on fish?) And I will make sure I get COPPERSAFE, COPPERSAFE, COPPERSAFE haha (knowing me I'd end up coming home with cupramine lol) And I will need a copper test kit by seachem only?? I have never seen a test kit by seachem, I don't know if I'll be able to find that?? Does it have to be seachem? (I understand it's to match the coppersafe brand with the test kit brand..)

I may take up your offer for the telephone call just to be safe, I don't want to do more harm than good. Once this is all organized, and I've broke the news to the parents..... I'll let ya know !

I figured I would need to treat all fish haha, duuuuuh

Now to your questions:

1.) 20 gallon tank
2.) There is 3 snails, 2 scarlet hermits, 1 Rose bubble tip anemone, and 4 Bubble tip anemones
3.) I have 4 fish.
4.) I have, 2 true percula clowns, 1 yellow watchman goby, 1 bicolor blenny.
5.) Yes, all fish are eating (like pigs)
6.) Err... lethargic breathing? Does that mean fast? lol! If so, no not so much, haven't payed super close attention, but no.. breathing is not fast on any fish
7.) The only two that sometimes swim near the top is the clowns.. no one else. But clowns are known to do that aren't they?? They by no means at the top of the water surface all the time.
8.) No. I have not seen them do so once.
9.) No. I have not seen any dart around... only if something startles them, or the clowns are bickering.
10.) I can take photos tonight, yes (at work) .. I doubt you will see any ich on them from a photo... I have to go right up to the glass and stare to see the ICH (I honestly don't think it's that bad, YET... but im no expert)

As for the media, all reefers in Calgary seem to be on opposite ends of the city.....but I suppose that's my only option? Like I said, I have an AquaClear 150 on the 20g that has been running for a month or so with a small piece of sponge in it. I assume that's not sufficient though.

Answers to more questions ..

1.) Yes, I am running a skimmer (AquaC Remora)
2.) My tank has been up since August 23 or 24th , of last year (almost 1 year old)
3.) I would say I have about.... 20lbs. MAX... maybe 15 pounds.. hard for me to say.

And just one last quick question... fallow means, just having a fishless tank right??

Phewph I think that's it.... Lee, I owe you big time for all this help... I hope I can do this on my own, my biggest worry is finding someone close (every local reefer seems to be on opposite ends of the city as me) for media, and finding a spot for the QT.. I know I can get a 10g with what I need for under 60$ or so...

[OCDP]

haha Danny, my brain works slow.. give me time for improvising lol

so are you suggesting to take the skimmer off the display once the fish are in QT ,and use that on the QT? And then just use a powerhead for circulation in the display?

I can do that... I am already running a Fluval 404 on the 20g.. and I have a spare powerhead now.

I think I may be trying the copper method, but if I go hypo, I will give you a shout, really appreciate the offer Danny.


Thanks for ALL of your guys's support so far.... I really would be doomed with you all.

[danny zubot]

I think I may be trying the copper method, but if I go hypo, I will give you a shout, really appreciate the offer Danny.

If you are going to use copper, don't put anything in the Q-tank that you will want to use in the main tank after. It will transfer copper and kill your corals.

[OCDP]

hahahaha oh wow... now see... it's a very , very good thing you told me that.

i forgot , copper is really deadly... thanks danny. told you id be doomed.

[bulletsworld]

Originally Posted by OCDP

i forgot , copper is really deadly... thanks danny. told you id be doomed.

O.k you got me worried now.


Start here.... http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...cupramine.html

Even though this is for Cupramine by Seachem it has mainly the same principles. Also to search www.reefcentral.com under the disease forum and read many posts about copper to get the general idea of effectiveness. You can Google " Coppersafe by Mardel Lab " for info on that copper. To answer your other Q, about test kit, you can also read on Reef Central people's experiences as well as fights with the companies directly on the accuracy of the test kits. In my own experience I have come found Seachem's test kit to be the most accurate and easy to follow for to use with Coppersafe even though made by different companies.

I'm not even going to go into the chemistry difference between the two coppers (chelated copper, etc). Please read and Google and you will see.

Copper needs extreme caution and understanding to treat your fish without killing them yourself.

My suggestion would be if Bob if offering to treat them for you, I would be more likely to suggest his offer. Not only would it save you some money but also maybe the headache. I would just hate for an overdose or spike to happen or not monitor the levels and result in lossing your fish.

Also as Danny mention (Good point Danny) you do not want to add any equipment from your main tank that you want to use again. So you would leave the skimmer on the main tank.

One more thing….I noticed you mentioned you are running a 404 Fluval canister filter on you 20gal. Am I correct to say that you only have 1 small filter sponge media in your canister, even though this canister has four long slots made for sponge media on the side panel in the canister??