For those who are always asking for proof...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by cav~firez22

Cites from the Phillipines, does not take much to get, considering that when the collector/supplier applys for the Cites, they slip a little cash in as a bribe, and they get their Cites.

All the beautiful fish that we like come from 3rd world countries (except Hawaii). and in these countrys, the "laws" are more catering to the money.

Its quite unfortunat, but, unless we ALL stop buying fish (not gonna happen here) then there will still be a demand for the product.

On a side note, i have not seen any videos that look like they are recent, ie. later than the 80s, unless their technoloy is crap over there.

just my 2 cents.




Haha, even better would be to make them injest it all. and watch.

Could be fun!.

Most are from the 90's. I knew that when I posted because as I said this wasn't to debate anything. Yes things are better than the 90's and especially the 80's. I know that but that doesn't mean it doesn't still happen.

Like I said, this wasn't to 'start anything' or put the hobby down. It was all just about awareness.

A day after posting, I wish I wouldn't have. I know better than to post stuff like this here but I was so frustrated after hearing what an employee was telling customers when the customer asked if any of their fish were caught with cyanide..."thats a myth and doesn't happen". I was also kind of bored at the time, so I posted. Again...should post stuff like this here

This hobby actually is NOT EVEN CLOSE to being as destructive as fishing for food, farming and chemical dumping is to the oceans. The reefs in Australia are going fast because of farming. The reefs in the Caribbean are being decimated by raw sewage. The reefs here in Canada are destroyed by overfishing and trawling...we like to blame seals for our overfishing though

So the hobby is not even close to being the major problem but was is a concern is how fast fishes are declining. The hobby needs to eventually become self sustainable through breeding or it will no longer exist. Someone told me today about how they had been to Hawaii twice diving and never seen a Yellow Tang.

The US last week started a bill that would severely limit importation of commercial fishes. I am all for it because this would mean breeding would have to be looked at. Yellow Tangs have been bred already (although not very successfully) so it can be done. The problem is that right now there is absolutely no reason to put the money into it.

Just want to make this clear before people start the big debate. The Philippines are starting to do a great job of policing the cyanide fishers and actually put them in jail but for hobbyists just deny it happens is so ridiculous.

[RuGlu6]

How about seals being killed in Canada, also how about cows being slaughtered, chickens, turkeys, lamb etc. How about them, they suffer as much as anything alive.

How about countries like Usa and Canada making War and killing hundreds per day?

people are knee deep in blood...


Humanity has a long way to go even to be called humans, we need to grow and we need to wake up.

[jsmth321]

Originally Posted by RuGlu6

How about seals being killed in Canada, also how about cows being slaughtered, chickens, turkeys, lamb etc. How about them, they suffer as much as anything alive.

How about countries like Usa and Canada making War and killing hundreds per day?

people are knee deep in blood...


Humanity has a long way to go even to be called humans, we need to grow and we need to wake up.

Not going to the seal thing but people need to eat, so there will always be animals killed for this purpose, but this does not mean we as humans have to go out and destroy the environment in the process of our daily living.

Remember there is no need to keep fish in a glass box, we do it for our pleasure and nothing else and in the process we should be taking steps to limit loss as best we can and leave the reefs the same way they are found.

Everything in the ocean is connected to one another and once one is removed it starts a domino effect.

Take the Chinook Salmon declines of recent years and Orca's, there is some evidence that whales are not getting enough to eat because of this decline and even though many like to blame the whales for declines in fish stocks, it us humans who have been fishing various species for food at rates that are not sustainable.

Everything in the ecosystem is connect to one another and once one is removed like I said, a domino effect.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by RuGlu6

How about seals being killed in Canada, also how about cows being slaughtered, chickens, turkeys, lamb etc. How about them, they suffer as much as anything alive.

How about countries like Usa and Canada making War and killing hundreds per day?

people are knee deep in blood...


Humanity has a long way to go even to be called humans, we need to grow and we need to wake up.

Well yeah...but I don't think any of that fits into the 'Marine Fish' section of Canreef. Lets please keep this on topic.

[phillybean]

It's the giant circle of life that humans have f-ed up!

Too many whales killed in the 1800 and early 1900's = lower population = More Seals = Less Fish. Solution? Kill the seals with clubs!

The fact of the matter is that our hobby has one of the least impacts of the marine problems. Overfishing for food and pollution take more fish and corals out of the reef than what collection for the hobby even comes close too. Quite frankly, within the next 20 years, we'll be looking to breed fish not for the hobby, but to re-introduce them into the wild.

[chandigz]

Heres what one of the exporters has to say. I've always been happy with their fish.
http://www.marinefauna-cebu.com/cyn.html

[BlueAbyss]

Originally Posted by Scavenger

It is truly sad what's happening to the natural world, however, we can't go pointing fingers and telling other countries they are wrong unless we sort out the mess in our own backyard first. Again, truly sad.

+1000! Just like people sending money to other places when there are starving / homeless kids here in Canada.

Originally Posted by spoot

Where is Cites when you need them? There ought to be better enforcement into matters like these; especially on products/livestock coming into North America and Europe.

CITES only controls trade on threatened and endangered species, from what I remember. Though I personally consider anything that lives in the ocean to be threatened...

Originally Posted by Leah

What I do not understand is if 75% die off within 48 hrs. Than what are they selling?
How are they making any money this way? I can not seem to understand why then
this would be profitable. If they see this why would they continue. I can not see the
logic in this. Sorry this really confuses me! I agree this is really sad.

They are selling the other 10 percent that actually make it to a store. For a ridiculous price, considering it costs very little to actually catch the fish by these methods. I suppose you are paying for them to hold it for 48 hours to make sure it actually survives, and the shipping. And the 100 percent markup at the LFS.

I can't wait to open my restaurant that sells only rare and endangered dishes. Manatee steak, anyone? I'll have mine medium-rare...

[fiorano]

i did a paper for an environmental science class on reef ecosystems in indonesia. Cyanide fishing and dynamite fishing cause a ridiculous amiount of damage and the profits outweigh the fines received from actually doing the deed... i think it is just absurd that this is not policed more effectively