How many QT new or sick fish for ich?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

everything I have read said the cyst stage can last from 3 to 28 days, then the rest of the life cycle is measured in hours upto a few days.

to get a Ich free tank you much remove any "host" for a min of 6 weeks and all the ich will have died, then the only way to get it back is to introduce it on a fish.

if you quarenteen for 6 weeks and there is no sign of Ich, then you won't get it.

Steve

Not true. Ich can live much longer without a host. I will not continue to argue it though, it gets me nowhere. I simply think its good for people to know that not every strain of ich dies off in 6 weeks. I think too many people seem to think there is one single strain of ich that acts/adapts the exact same in every situation. I know someone on RC with the exact study/data but I will have to check with him first if I can use his name. He is a biologist who I trust 100%, not to mention the study was a very well conducted, controlled one tat involved ich. Now the study was not to find out how long ich can live without a host but after almost 3 months fishless and ich still surviving it was an interesting find.

Anyways...saturday night...time to go out!

[marie]

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

....

Anyways...saturday night...time to go out!

Saturday? did I lose a day somewhere?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by marie

Saturday? did I lose a day somewhere?

LOL...friday! hahaha

Sorry...I work from home and don't pay that much attention to what day it is I guess!

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

Not true. Ich can live much longer without a host. I will not continue to argue it though, it gets me nowhere. I simply think its good for people to know that not every strain of ich dies off in 6 weeks. I think too many people seem to think there is one single strain of ich that acts/adapts the exact same in every situation. I know someone on RC with the exact study/data but I will have to check with him first if I can use his name. He is a biologist who I trust 100%, not to mention the study was a very well conducted, controlled one tat involved ich. Now the study was not to find out how long ich can live without a host but after almost 3 months fishless and ich still surviving it was an interesting find.

Anyways...saturday night...time to go out!

just post a link to the thread where he talks about it. I checked 35 webpages, about 1/2 of them from marine biologists and I coulden't find any longer. I remembered hearing about 3 months years ago but that was just some one posting what he did in a thread so I can't back that up.

Steve

[Aquattro]

Don't QT any fish, Ich isn't something I worry about. I've had it twice, 3 days max each time out of close to 10 years of doing this. Now red bugs on corals, that's a different story. Any frag that goes in the tank gets inspected under a dissecting scope, then treated if any bugs are found. If I see any evidence of AEFW, then the frag goes in the garbage.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

just post a link to the thread where he talks about it. I checked 35 webpages, about 1/2 of them from marine biologists and I coulden't find any longer. I remembered hearing about 3 months years ago but that was just some one posting what he did in a thread so I can't back that up.

Steve

Marine Biologist generally do not have the answer to this...My older brother is a marine biologist and would know less about ich than we do most likely. Its not something they deal with. I just meant the one who gave the info was one and is well respected. It was not his study though.

Like I said before, Im not going to waste my time looking. If it is important to you go ahead and look. I don't keep links. I have seen the study and IMO it was very well controlled and conducted. I offered the advice and no one wants to believe it (fair enough and I understand...I mean it would not be a good news), to be honest, I don't care. I though it would be nice to share but I actually wish I had just been quiet about it...no I don't have the links/facts but I know what I saw and thought it was good for other to know. When I heard ich can live longer without a host it answered a lot of questions I had and made a lot of sense. I hear too many people QTing for 6-8 weeks and still having ich in the tank. I hypo'd my poor fish for 8 weeks at 1.008 and then kept them in QT for another 3 weeks to make sure the ich was gone. Put them back in the display and added nothing new. Two weeks later they had ich again. You tell me where it came from?!? Two possibilities and both are very possible. Either this strain of ich was able to adjust and live in hypo (very possible) or it lived without a host for 11 weeks in my tank. I went looking for answers on RC and found that study where ich had lived almost 3 months without a host. Made total sense at that point. Not all strains of ich can do this and there are quite a few.

My problem with most of the advice given on all these ich websites/pages like the link above is that its all based on a few studies done in the 90's with little known about the parasite and ONE species of fish. You guys are all over me for proof and that is fair but maybe go ahead and actually look at how that study was conducted. Look at which strain of ich was used and how. It was not the best study to be honest and yet all kind of literature is based on it.

I already did give one link showing how ich has adapted and evolved. Why would it not be evolving? No different from any other parasite...they adapt very well.

Wasn't here for an argument though so I am going to stay away from this...

[Jan]

I don't know if this is the article you were talking about. There is some good info about ICH by someone that has done some research on it.They do say that ICH can survive a long time...months..
I usually quarantine..unless I know the fish is healthy and eating.For me..using a good sized (25 gal) quarantine tank with live rock helps the fish get adjusted to your feeding schedule and foods...as well as seeing if they have any disease.I don't put any sand in. I can remove the rock for treatment if necessary.
If the fish is a finicky eater...it can help you find out what it will eat..you can observe it better and your other fish don't get all the food.



http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ths-facts.html

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by Jan

I don't know if this is the article you were talking about. There is some good info about ICH by someone that has done some research on it.They do say that ICH can survive a long time...months..
I usually quarantine..unless I know the fish is healthy and eating.For me..using a good sized (25 gal) quarantine tank with live rock helps the fish get adjusted to your feeding schedule and foods...as well as seeing if they have any disease.I don't put any sand in. I can remove the rock for treatment if necessary.
If the fish is a finicky eater...it can help you find out what it will eat..you can observe it better and your other fish don't get all the food.



http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ths-facts.html

Along the same lines, yes but not the same one. This one says up to 72 days. The journal I read had ich surviving even longer. I think this is a decent site/page hitting some of the major points of the "ich myths" though. Thanks.

Yes QT is very good still. I have never argued its not I have a new fish in QT right now. I still do it but not for ich. I am looking for other things. My fish are all treated with Prazi Pro for a week at minimum.

This was not about QTing in general, just about QTing for ich.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

double post...

[Patrice]

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

I hear too many people QTing for 6-8 weeks and still having ich in the tank. I hypo'd my poor fish for 8 weeks at 1.008 and then kept them in QT for another 3 weeks to make sure the ich was gone. Put them back in the display and added nothing new. Two weeks later they had ich again. You tell me where it came from?!? Two possibilities and both are very possible. Either this strain of ich was able to adjust and live in hypo (very possible) or it lived without a host for 11 weeks in my tank. I went looking for answers on RC and found that study where ich had lived almost 3 months without a host. Made total sense at that point. Not all strains of ich can do this and there are quite a few.

To me, that's enough to think the article GreenSpottedPuffer found could be right. Maybe not totally right but certainly not totally wrong.
There is lot we don't know so we must not reject a theory just because most say something else (especially when we see exemples like GreenSpottedPuffer showed us above.)

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

My problem with most of the advice given on all these ich websites/pages like the link above is that its all based on a few studies done in the 90's

That's right for many things. Just take the exemple of fertilizers in freshwater planted tank. Most paper about this are old and not good at all. Most were based on the bellive that po4 was the reason we get algae in planted aquaria. We now know there is nothing as wrong but many still realy on that. When we say this is wrong, they reffer to 100s of article to prove this is right (all from the 80's and 90's).