Blue Hippo - Ich - Treating with copper

[naesco]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

I don't want to be argumentative, but am I the only one who think that treating a fish with copper for ich only to reintroduce it right back to a ich contaminated tank make ne sense what so ever??

I think you are right daniella. The only time it would make sense would be if a fish were clearly very infested such that a garlic extract treatment with selcon might be difficult.
But in that case copper would not be the choice. A formalin dip would be best IME and the fish would go back to the main tank for the garlic extract treatment.

[scherzo]

I will soak food from time to time.

The 90 is an in wall with framing already going in for a six foot fowlr (also in wall) that will share the 75 gallon sump that is already running under it.

I hope I don't get divorced... 14 years of marriage.. and I love my wife more than the first day I met her.. kids.. love 'em already...

A move is something to consider... but if we always consider a move.. we'll never setup a tank then would we?

I do appreciate your thoughts..

Originally Posted by naesco

Two points
You might want to consider soaking all food you feed in garlic extract using selcon as welll from time to time.
The tang you bought will get to be the size of a pie plate.
Your 4 foot tank is too small for this tang.
Despite reefers best intentions to move up to a larger tank as the tang grows, the reality is divorce, marriage, kids, unemployment or a move change things and the tangs suffer.

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by globaldesigns

Glad to hear that you aren't keeping a tang in a 15 Gallon. I didn't think that was the case.

Again, personally I don't believe in hospital tanks. The stress of catching them, the stress of putting them in a new environment, usually much smaller and not of the same water quality usually would stress them out more. Again, just my opinion, but why do that.

I have had ICH, and I have only ever lost one fish to it in my big tank. I find if your environment is spot on, and you keep your parameters good, just let them be and feed them a good varied diet. This also goes for HYPO, I don't believe in it.

Now in saying that, I have great success with fish... I can't say much lately for my coral though. Oh Well.

i have the same thought that if your fish are healthy and your tank is healthy then ich wont be a problem in most cases, i know a few people who battled bad bouts of it only to end up with healthy systems without having them fishless for weeks on end.


it all comes down to this any new arrival never hits your tank... all fish are quarantined even if for a short time is all one can do, it goes to show that if you only ever introduce healthy fish to your system then your systenm will be healthy...if you do introduce a fish into your tank who didnt show signs but do now that doesnt mean the rest of your fish will get it , fish that are healthy swimmers with good appetites and strong immune systems can fight it off or are barely affected.

[plutoniumJoe]

** All treatments are up to the individual (Disclaimer).

I don't think that a hospital tank in this situation is a bad idea. I have had my dealings with ich and I still wake up at night with the sweats occasionally thinking about it. I agree that once a tank gets established ich becomes less of an issue but you sometimes have to give a new fish a fighting chance. Considering what the fish probably went through to get from the ocean to your tank a few weeks recouping in a hospital tank might be what the doctor ordered.

If the fish gets introduced and is too small or to sick to compete with the other fish their chances decrease. By treating the fish and nursing them back to health maybe they will have a strong immune system next time they go back into the display and can fight it off this time. Even removing all fish and treating while the DT remains fallow for 6 weeks or so is not always effective. There are some strains of ich that can live without a host for considerably longer.

I often wondered if the fish can sense my stress over these situations and react accordingly. I added a Powder Blue a few months ago and the other tangs cut it up like swiss cheese. Of course he developed some ich and I thought his days were numbered. For once I didn't stress about it and he healed up and is doing fine now.

Anyway good luck and keep us posted......Just keep swimming.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

I don't want to be argumentative, but am I the only one who think that treating a fish with copper for ich only to reintroduce it right back to a ich contaminated tank make ne sense what so ever??

Treating Ich doesn't make sense to me to begin with... ...almost every single tank out there has Ich in it. Every time you add a coral or rock or a fish or a snail or anything wet to your tank (unless you're extremely diligent with dipping/quarantining) you are likely to add Ich. Imo no tank is Ich free unless it has sat fallow for at least 6 weeks since the last "wet" addition. Even then, you would have to be awfully diligent about adding the quarantined fish back to the tank because fish can still carry Ich without visibly showing infection.

[daniella3d]

Nope, mine does not have ich in it and I don't want ich in it.

That's a myth that every tank has ich. Ich is a parasite and it does not have to be in a tank and on a fish. It weaken the fish and although you don't see the white dots maybe, a certain amount of parasites can still be on the gill and weaken the fish if it become stressed and create an outbreak.

Tank must be fallow for 8 weeks.

Fish can still be carrying ich without showing sign so yes an hyposalinity is not 100% garantee to get rid of it but it is much more sure than not doing quarantine, especialy if you have an ich magnet like a hippo tang. Make no mistake, people do lose fish from ich and something many fish.

Originally Posted by Myka

Treating Ich doesn't make sense to me to begin with... ...almost every single tank out there has Ich in it. Every time you add a coral or rock or a fish or a snail or anything wet to your tank (unless you're extremely diligent with dipping/quarantining) you are likely to add Ich. Imo no tank is Ich free unless it has sat fallow for at least 6 weeks since the last "wet" addition. Even then, you would have to be awfully diligent about adding the quarantined fish back to the tank because fish can still carry Ich without visibly showing infection.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

Nope, mine does not have ich in it and I don't want ich in it.

That's a myth that every tank has ich. Ich is a parasite and it does not have to be in a tank and on a fish. It weaken the fish and although you don't see the white dots maybe, a certain amount of parasites can still be on the gill and weaken the fish if it become stressed and create an outbreak.

I didn't say every tank does, I said almost every tank does. A person has to be extremely diligent to not have Ich in their tank, and most people either don't put the effort in or make mistakes they aren't aware of which will let Ich slip by unnoticed. I would bet you could get an Ich outbreak in your tank if you stressed them enough, but it would be cruel to prove my case. It's really not that big of a deal, I'm not sure why you seem to think it is.

Fish can/will carry the parasite in their gills "forever" unless you have TREATED every fish in a QT before adding them to your tank you will most likely have Ich in there. Simply quarantining the fish won't guarantee there is no Ich present, it has to be treated. 30% of the fish in the world's reefs are infected with Ich either in their gills or on their body, and it only makes sense that a much larger percentage would be infected in dealers' tanks. If Ich is showing on the body the fish is already severely infected.

Originally Posted by daniella3d

Tank must be fallow for 8 weeks.

Omg kill me for my typo! But thanks for pointing it out. I will change my post in case someone is reading this.

Originally Posted by daniella3d

Fish can still be carrying ich without showing sign so yes an hyposalinity is not 100% garantee to get rid of it but it is much more sure than not doing quarantine, especialy if you have an ich magnet like a hippo tang. Make no mistake, people do lose fish from ich and something many fish.

If done correctly hyposalinity is 100% as with copper treatment and leaving the tank fallow. Those are the only 100% treatments, but many people do not do them 100% correctly. Human error is the only thing that affects the "guarantee".

[daniella3d]

Sure, that's why I do hyposalinity no matter if the fish show sign of ich or not, as to get rid of what ever gill parasites the fish might be hiding.

Keeping a fish in quarantine with normal salinity is only good to see if the fish does not have something nasty as velvet or turn out with some other diseases. I am well aware that it may still have ich and not show it.

As for my fish in QT now, I am putting them in my display tomorrow, QT over. So far so good, no sign if ich while raising the salinity so I will see tomorrow and in the next few days.

At least I am 100% sure they don't have velvet because they have been in QT for 6 weeks now.

Originally Posted by Myka

Fish can/will carry the parasite in their gills "forever" unless you have TREATED every fish in a QT before adding them to your tank you will most likely have Ich in there. Simply quarantining the fish won't guarantee there is no Ich present, it has to be treated. 30% of the fish in the world's reefs are infected with Ich either in their gills or on their body, and it only makes sense that a much larger percentage would be infected in dealers' tanks. If Ich is showing on the body the fish is already severely infected.



Omg kill me for my typo! But thanks for pointing it out. I will change my post in case someone is reading this.



If done correctly hyposalinity is 100% as with copper treatment and leaving the tank fallow. Those are the only 100% treatments, but many people do not do them 100% correctly. Human error is the only thing that affects the "guarantee".

[Myka]

They need to be in full hyposalinity for 8 weeks to "guarantee" no Ich left. You should know that. By "full hyposalinity" I mean not including the days it takes to get to hypo or the days it takes to get back to normal salinity.

[daniella3d]

8 weeks? that's a bit extreme I did 6 weeks, hope it's enough.

When I raised the salinity, to help prevent any return of ich, I also treated with Paragard.

Originally Posted by Myka

They need to be in full hyposalinity for 8 weeks to "guarantee" no Ich left. You should know that. By "full hyposalinity" I mean not including the days it takes to get to hypo or the days it takes to get back to normal salinity.