Data: Wrong; Sustainability: Don't care; Robert Wintner: Aquarium trade should stop!

[mrhasan]

Well despite working with energy system policies and grid greening, I hate environmentalist! Here's one of the reasons why:

http://www.reef2rainforest.com/2013/...ref_map=%5B%5D

These people don't have anything better to do other than creating their own views, spreading propaganda and love eating fish instead of keeping them. He keeps on saying that aquarium trade is not a part of "fishery" because (possibly) he loves eating salmon! That's not immoral but keeping fishes in aquarium is - according to Sea Shepherd Vice-President Robert Wintner. While the author tried to disproof Wintner's initial claim of "Hawaii reef is dying" with scientific data which even disproves Wintner's claim of "they can go anywhere", he concludes that he thinks its "immoral" and should stop. Well just because he thinks its immoral (which is a relative term!) doesn't mean he is write and even data that are available is wrong!

And one of the strongest point of the author was "If this campaign was really about defending reefs against the most significant impacts, wouldn’t we see pictures of terrestrial runoff, coastal development, carbon producing machines, and, yes, even mask and snorkel-wielding tourists trampling Hawaii’s reefs? Instead we only see images related to aquarium fishing. Isn’t it clear what’s going on here?"

M conclusion: this guy never succeeded in keeping reef tank and hence the grudge

[Dearth]

Don't get me started on environmentalists as I have a serious hate on for them there is a place for those guys but in my world a good place for them is at the bottom of the ocean with cement shoes.

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Dearth

Don't get me started on environmentalists as I have a serious hate on for them there is a place for those guys but in my world a good place for them is at the bottom of the ocean with cement shoes.

Come on don't be mean on the ocean It has enough contamination in there :P

My grad research revolves around climate change and stuffs but there's a difference between "making a change" and "spreading crap loaded propaganda". These people are actually holding back the progress of making this world a better place. Just think what would happen if this campaign goes forth. It won't stop the trade but the whole industry will become black market "without" any "regulation"!

[Dearth]

I could go on for days and days about the subject mostly about green peace and the David Suzuki foundation both are the biggest bunch of liars and idiots out there I can speak volumes about what they have done to both improve and screw up the forest industry in which I work and their flawed logic on dying oceans and forests.

[Myka]

Snorkel Bob is ridiculous, and the fact that he's gotten as far as he has with very little evidence is outrageous.

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Myka

Snorkel Bob is ridiculous, and the fact that he's gotten as far as he has with very little evidence is outrageous.

Who's snorkel bob?

[naesco]

Thank God for the environmentalists in Hawaii Indonesia and the Philippines and other countries that provide fish coral and inverts for our hobby

Theses are the gals/guys who:

1. Lobby their governments against the use of cyanide and dynamite that destroys the reefs and the critters that live therein.
2. Lobby to set up marine parks to preserve breeding areas for the critters we keep. Only a dumber than dumb reefer would suggest that national parks in Canada are bad.
3. Pressure the marine industry to stop the import of impossible to keep species and very difficult to keep fish like cleaner wrasse that provide a vital cleaning job on he fish in the oceans.
4. Are the leaders in Cites and worldwide endangers precise listings.
5 pressure the government to prohibit the wholesale mining of the reef for live rock
6. Demonstrate against mining, manufacturing and oil industries to pressure them to lower water pollution so that the reefs do not die from pollution and silt infiltration

And the list goes on.

Imagine what would happen in these countries without their good work

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by naesco

Than God for the environmentalists in Hawaii Indonesia and the Philippines and other countries that provide fish coral and inverts for our hobby

Theses are the gals/guys who:

1. Lobby their governments against the use of cyanide and dynamite that destroys the reefs and the critters that live therein.
2. Lobby to set up marine parks to preserve breeding areas for the critters we keep. Only a dumber than dumb reefer would suggest that national parks in Canada are bad.
3. Pressure the marine industry to stop the import of impossible to keep species and very difficult to keep fish like cleaner wrasse that provide a vital cleaning job on he fish in the oceans.
4. Are the leaders in Cites and worldwide endangers precise listings.
5 pressure the government to prohibit the wholesale mining of the reef for live rock
6. Demonstrate against mining, manufacturing and oil industries to pressure them to lower water pollution so that the reefs do not die from pollution and silt infiltration

And the list goes on.

Imagine what would happen in these countries without their good work

Those are obviously good works. And they are termed as "regulation" while this guy, in his campaign, is not promoting "regulation" but instead making a path for black market by saying "legal trade is immoral". Our human nature is such that the forbidden fruit is always the tastiest and put a ban on the marine hobby and the industry will find a way that is not regulated or anything - which can be the worst nightmare for the hobbyist as well as the nature. There's a huge difference between people who create/works with regulations and policy and treehugger who write "save trees" on pieces of papers.

[naesco]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

Those are obviously good works. And they are termed as "regulation" while this guy, in his campaign, is not promoting "regulation" but instead making a path for black market by saying "legal trade is immoral". Our human nature is such that the forbidden fruit is always the tastiest and put a ban on the marine hobby and the industry will find a way that is not regulated or anything - which can be the worst nightmare for the hobbyist as well as the nature. There's a huge difference between people who create/works with regulations and policy and treehugger who write "save trees" on pieces of papers.

Fair comment but these regulations came as a result of Greenpeace and the sponge bobs of the world forcing governments and industry to reform and change their ways

But for the environmental lobby no regulations would have happened. For example we are going to get tighter regulations on pipelines in BC which is in everyone's interest.

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by naesco

Fair comment but these regulations came as a result of Greenpeace and the sponge bobs of the world forcing governments and industry to reform and change their ways

But for the environmental lobby no regulations would have happened. For example we are going to get tighter regulations on pipelines in BC which is in everyone's interest.

Definitely. There are obviously environmentalists who find "ways" to "solve" the problem instead of attacking it. Every profession has two sides but its just, some big names in this profession are more eager to just whip out everything which can never be a solution. For example, cyanide poisoning definitely underwent scientific researches to justify and then the concerned activist took it to promote regulation of not using cyanide. That's a solution. But what would have happened if they just said "stop catching fish all together"; that would have caused major issues. Over here, instead of stating moral issues (which can never solve problem) he could have brought in scientific research instead of "they can go anywhere"; its just not right. I have seen "proper" environmentalists attack these type of hypocrites; that tells the conclusion how things work :P