Bio-pellets I quit you!

[imcosmokramer]

wow....I was ready to start using them....now I'm having second thoughts...argh!

[GMGQ]

A bacterial bloom is normal during the initial stages of running biopellets. You should have just been patient, sucked out the cyano and ride it through.

And yes, if the tumble was too fast, the bacterial mulm wont be able to hang onto the pellets.

Originally Posted by asylumdown

I started using biopellets after 1.5 years of running my tank and within a month my sand, rocks and glass were covered in cyano. Output was aimed directly at the skimmer, but maybe I had them tumbling too fast in the reactor. It's kind of hard to tell what 'too fast' is without physically watching the reactor of someone who is using them successfully.

I probably would have stuck it out and tried tweaking things if I hadn't needed to break down my tank, but it's food for thought for the next build.

[blacknife]

getting really ****ed off at the constant clumping in TLF 150 with a 550 gph powerhead pushing it.

regular cyano outbreaks. but hey i had cyano before i had pellets.

I am sure if the dammed things would just keep tumbling they would work great but every day i have to take the thing apart and stir all the white grossness up to get them tumbling again only to have them all mostly stuck again in an hour.

any ideas how to make a tlf reactor work better?
bah probably just scrap the thing and run the tank without for a bit. considering zeo but buying anything for the tank lately falls into spousal fury territory.

[apexifd]

I think the problem with clumping is due to the fact that we all use the retro fit reactor.

my nexreef reactor will clog us every few days, and pellets start to clump together.

untill I decided to remove the bottom mesh, I now have some dead spot that won't get any flow, but, beats having to clean the mesh every few days.

However I do think pellets works, I have no cyano anymore little to no hair algae. polyp extension looks really good. and I only change 30% of water every month.

At this point I am thinking of ordering a purpose build pellet reactor, like JNS pellet reactor, which create a turbulence in the chamber rather than an constant up flow current.

although, there's no local dealer here. and I may have to order it from oversea. But it might worth it.

[Wanderer]

Bio pellets are a viable method of nutrient control / elimination. The largest oversight most people have with this approach is proper … fertilization for lack of a better word. All animals require Nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium (NPK) in given ratios aka the Redfield ratio. potassium in a reef system is frequently overlooked as it generally is in low demand in your average system. When you look at a pro biotic system (zeovit, pellets, vsv or whatever) where you are culturing bacteria in large quantities typically potassium will run out. so that would be point number 1.

other nutrients can be in improper ratios as well too much phosphate for example will usually persist in most tanks as it is much higher in concentration in wastes than nitrate is. so in such a case, running gfo would be necessary or perhaps it might be interesting to DOSE KNO3. I'm not advocating this, simply stating that in principle it would work.


The issue of pellets clumping versus aggressive tumbling is an interesting one. I actually did a fair bit of research in university regarding the productivity and health of streams based on water velocity, substrate size and shape. This is essentially the same principle. what research has found is that in streams where the gravel beds have rounded or slightly rounded particles regardless of size, the water can actively tumble the substrate and the flow through of water is not restricted. This allows for optimal generation of micro flora and fauna which forms the basis of the trophic web.

In slow moving / borderline stagnant bodies of water the production is limited by lower levels of nutrients and oxygen or CO2 being delivered to colonies of micro fauna / flora. These areas actually aid in proliferating larger organisms which feed on the animals / plants produced in the more excited bodies of water. Additionally the slower waters tend to accumulate more detritus and nutrients via decomposition and therefore can lead to larger colonies of plants and decomposers.

Aggressively flowing water with high levels of agitation between substrate particles slough off colonies of micro organisms, sometimes prematurely. this is not necessarily beneficial to productivity. and usually results in high turbidity and low productivity in a river or stream.

so what does all this ecological mumbo jumbo mean for the reef keeper using bio pellets?

that the differentiation between given microhabitats is the key. a good flow - through of water to provide oxygen and nutrients with lower flow areas for the maturation or microorganisms and biofilms that will be sloughed off in higher flow areas. bacteria proliferate more effectively in slightly thicker bioflms, so encouraging there development to a point is beneficial. This translates to a PROPER reactor that moves the pellets around enough to prevent clumping but not so much as to retard the development of biofilms.

Its all about finding that sweet spot of flow through (proper reactor, flow rate) and nourishing the bacteria properly. Keeping your KH at the Proper levels is also necessary.

Dosing a bacterial supplement also insures the correct species of bacteria is at work on the pellets. While other methods may promote a myriad of bacterial species feeding on various carbon sources the biopellet method relies on a few bacteria species. Most of these bacteria will be removed via your skimmer when the methods are used properly. Dosing multiple carbon sources seems more complicated than it has to be. if you were to culture these many species of bacteria for feeding purposes for filter feeders, then it makes sense. For crude nutrient export, giving a limited number of bacterial species the advantage over many makes more sense, and greatly simplifies the delivery of carbon for the bacteria to consume. not to mention the benefit of having the carbon in an inert pellet confined in a reactor instead of freely available to anything within the water column.

just my two cents, as i have noticed the benefit of bio pellets myself and for once, my supremely nerdy tendencies came in useful.

[Milad]

+1 I was going to say the same thing but you beat me to it.... mmmhmm

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Bio pellets are a viable method of nutrient control / elimination. The largest oversight most people have with this approach is proper … fertilization for lack of a better word. All animals require Nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium (NPK) in given ratios aka the Redfield ratio. potassium in a reef system is frequently overlooked as it generally is in low demand in your average system. When you look at a pro biotic system (zeovit, pellets, vsv or whatever) where you are culturing bacteria in large quantities typically potassium will run out. so that would be point number 1.

other nutrients can be in improper ratios as well too much phosphate for example will usually persist in most tanks as it is much higher in concentration in wastes than nitrate is. so in such a case, running gfo would be necessary or perhaps it might be interesting to DOSE KNO3. I'm not advocating this, simply stating that in principle it would work.


The issue of pellets clumping versus aggressive tumbling is an interesting one. I actually did a fair bit of research in university regarding the productivity and health of streams based on water velocity, substrate size and shape. This is essentially the same principle. what research has found is that in streams where the gravel beds have rounded or slightly rounded particles regardless of size, the water can actively tumble the substrate and the flow through of water is not restricted. This allows for optimal generation of micro flora and fauna which forms the basis of the trophic web.

In slow moving / borderline stagnant bodies of water the production is limited by lower levels of nutrients and oxygen or CO2 being delivered to colonies of micro fauna / flora. These areas actually aid in proliferating larger organisms which feed on the animals / plants produced in the more excited bodies of water. Additionally the slower waters tend to accumulate more detritus and nutrients via decomposition and therefore can lead to larger colonies of plants and decomposers.

Aggressively flowing water with high levels of agitation between substrate particles slough off colonies of micro organisms, sometimes prematurely. this is not necessarily beneficial to productivity. and usually results in high turbidity and low productivity in a river or stream.

so what does all this ecological mumbo jumbo mean for the reef keeper using bio pellets?

that the differentiation between given microhabitats is the key. a good flow - through of water to provide oxygen and nutrients with lower flow areas for the maturation or microorganisms and biofilms that will be sloughed off in higher flow areas. bacteria proliferate more effectively in slightly thicker bioflms, so encouraging there development to a point is beneficial. This translates to a PROPER reactor that moves the pellets around enough to prevent clumping but not so much as to retard the development of biofilms.

Its all about finding that sweet spot of flow through (proper reactor, flow rate) and nourishing the bacteria properly. Keeping your KH at the Proper levels is also necessary.

Dosing a bacterial supplement also insures the correct species of bacteria is at work on the pellets. While other methods may promote a myriad of bacterial species feeding on various carbon sources the biopellet method relies on a few bacteria species. Most of these bacteria will be removed via your skimmer when the methods are used properly. Dosing multiple carbon sources seems more complicated than it has to be. if you were to culture these many species of bacteria for feeding purposes for filter feeders, then it makes sense. For crude nutrient export, giving a limited number of bacterial species the advantage over many makes more sense, and greatly simplifies the delivery of carbon for the bacteria to consume. not to mention the benefit of having the carbon in an inert pellet confined in a reactor instead of freely available to anything within the water column.

just my two cents, as i have noticed the benefit of bio pellets myself and for once, my supremely nerdy tendencies came in useful.

[GMGQ]

I did this mod to both of my TLF150 reactors and the difference has been NIGHT AND DAY:

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...8&postcount=24

You can just gently twist off the bottom red plate, then glue the rest of the tubing together into the lid. Be sure to put a knitting mesh above the top red plate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjnFv...layer_embedded

(i've put in more pellets since then, the reactors are 3/4 full now).

I'm only running a MJ1200 and MJ900, and they're both choked back with 1/2" valves. 550gph sounds like major overkill!


Also regarding your clumping, it's probably due to air bubbles stuck against the pellets. My reactors are hanging on the side of the sump, so I just lift out the bottom half of the reactor, let go, and let it bang against the sump. This shakes up the reactor and releases a bunch of the micro bubbles, and reduces clumping. Short of that, you have to give it more time! If you're only waiting an hour before cracking it open and stirring it, you're just injecting more bubbles when the pump starts up again. Shake up the reactor to loosen up the bubbles, and let it tumble for 1-2 weeks. If you have enough flow (which you must, with 550gph), then the clumps will slowly disappear. PATIENCE, GRASSHOPPER.

Originally Posted by blacknife

getting really ****ed off at the constant clumping in TLF 150 with a 550 gph powerhead pushing it.

regular cyano outbreaks. but hey i had cyano before i had pellets.

I am sure if the dammed things would just keep tumbling they would work great but every day i have to take the thing apart and stir all the white grossness up to get them tumbling again only to have them all mostly stuck again in an hour.

any ideas how to make a tlf reactor work better?
bah probably just scrap the thing and run the tank without for a bit. considering zeo but buying anything for the tank lately falls into spousal fury territory.

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by GMGQ

I did this mod to both of my TLF150 reactors and the difference has been NIGHT AND DAY:

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...8&postcount=24

You can just gently twist off the bottom red plate, then glue the rest of the tubing together into the lid. Be sure to put a knitting mesh above the top red plate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjnFv...layer_embedded

(i've put in more pellets since then, the reactors are 3/4 full now).

I'm only running a MJ1200 and MJ900, and they're both choked back with 1/2" valves. 550gph sounds like major overkill!

see that flow rate looks perfect to me.

[GMGQ]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

see that flow rate looks perfect to me.

Thanks.

The other important note is to direct the output from the reactor to the intake of your protein skimmer pump. I used zip ties to hold up the tubing so that it's about an inch away from the skimmer intake, so that the output will get sucked into the skimmer.

Too much excess bacteria floating into your tank can lead to the bacteria lingering in low flow areas of your tank.

[cwatkins]

I'm going to have to do that extra mod to my TLF150 now! Never thought of removing the bottom red part. It should help my tumbling a lot!

Just going to mention that last time I tested my Po4 (w/ Hanna Checker) was at 0.09ppm and my polyp extension is super crazy!