Funny thing about the LFS and the "relinquiesh the CITES" comment

wickedfrags · #1 05-14-2009, 08:13 PM

Some may recognize the quote below from a thread earlier today.

Funny thing - I bough some corals off this guy about a year or so back (he sells corals out of BC). Interestingly - I specifically asked him for a copy of the CITES so I could apply for a re-export permit to the US. The answer was no.

Wonder why that was??? Apparently all vendors should just be willing to give these out...yet you would not. What a piece of work bringing this back up - seems as though your ethics have not changed at all.

For those reading, go ask your LFS for a copy of the CITES next time you buy a couple corals and see what they tell you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.A.D.

Well....I'm sure that for any potential business from me, you could somehow persuade your LFS to relinquiesh the CITES for me to veryify...otherwise how would I know? I am just basing my purchase on your honesty that the corals were imported legally.

Could I call DFO to visit your LFS so that they can verify the CITES authenticity before I make a purchase?

Could you kindly ask your LFS if this would be a possibility?

Thanks.

Aquattro · #2 05-14-2009, 08:19 PM

Dave, I'm not sure I understand the point here....

If you have battles with other suppliers, please take it offline.

wickedfrags · #3 05-14-2009, 08:26 PM

Ok let me explain.

I want to clarify to all those who read the previous thread that it is in no way reasonable for a hobbyist to expect th LFS to expect to just hand out such a permit. Heck - even a Canadian wholesaler/re-seller will not provide you with that!

If anyone for any reason felt that this was reasonable, and perhaps chose to order through an online company that could provide such a document as they import directly from overseas (and there are some) - well this could mean money out of my pocket. Unfair in my opinion - just wanted to clear that up!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Dave, I'm not sure I understand the point here....

If you have battles with other suppliers, please take it offline.

Scythanith · #4 05-14-2009, 08:28 PM

I have asked my LFS for CITES permits from shipments and they don't receive the CITES from their wholesaler. Instead, the LFS was nice enough to provide me with the contact information of one of his suppliers who I contacted nd delt with them directly. This obviously isn't the norm, but they know I'm not trying to steal a supplier, just applying for re-export CITES for various corals.

I wish the laws were different. I have spent many hours speaking with the DFO, Environment Canada and a few other organizations to convince them that aqua-cultured corals aren't the same as even mari-cultured stock. It's easier to shoot a polar bear and get it from Canada to the USA than to get an aqua-cultured frag across the border.

p.s. 1000 posts Dave, congrats lol!

Aquattro · #5 05-14-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedfrags.com

Ok let me explain.

I want to clarify to all those who read the previous thread that it is in no way reasonable for a hobbyist to expect th LFS to expect to just hand out such a permit. Heck - even a Canadian wholesaler/re-seller will not provide you with that!

If anyone for any reason felt that this was reasonable, and perhaps chose to order through an online company that could provide such a document as they import directly from overseas (and there are some) - well this could mean money out of my pocket. Unfair in my opinion - just wanted to clear that up!

Yes Dave, I agree it's not a reasonable request to see these documents. However, I have a copy of a note where you asked for the same documents.
I'm really getting annoyed with this whole topic Dave, and these posts are getting old. Please just give it a rest.

Scythanith · #6 05-14-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Yes Dave, I agree it's not a reasonable request to see these documents. However, I have a copy of a note where you asked for the same documents.
I'm really getting annoyed with this whole topic Dave, and these posts are getting old. Please just give it a rest.

So you don't think it's fair to ask for proof of lineage? This is about lineage corals, not just ordinary corals after all isn't it?

I know your personal stance Aquattro, you don't care where it comes from, if you like it you buy it. That's your personal view on the topic and far be it from me to try and change your mind! But some people would like to see a "paper trail" to prove lineage. And they will ask for it from any retailer trying to sell it as such.

There is no winning this battle for either side.

24storm · #7 05-14-2009, 09:01 PM

I think that the lineage info is important in this situation when you are going to buying something that is branded Tyree or ORA.

I have followed all these thread and i think they are very important and that some of these questions should be answered.

If things are found to be done illegally in the extreme case this could effect all of us who keep coral in our tanks.

There will be people who are not interested in hearing anything about any of this and there will be others who will be very interested and passionate about the situation. I think that the first thread would have been good to have around as it posed alot of good questions in it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scythanith

So you don't think it's fair to ask for proof of lineage? This is about lineage corals, not just ordinary corals after all isn't it?

I know your personal stance Aquattro, you don't care where it comes from, if you like it you buy it. That's your personal view on the topic and far be it from me to try and change your mind! But some people would like to see a "paper trail" to prove lineage. And they will ask for it from any retailer trying to sell it as such.

There is no winning this battle for either side.

Aquattro · #8 05-14-2009, 09:06 PM

If someone wants a paper trail, ask the seller. In private. There has been enough arguing here about it, and it's now run past it's course.

Zoaelite · #9 05-14-2009, 09:18 PM

Does anyone know, besides CITES if there any other system which can act to verify the legitity of stock? When Tyree releases a frag, does it come with a certificate or something specifying its authenticity? It seems a little silly to ever ask for something like this, just a whole lot of extra work. If the coral looks exactly like the LE Red Planet Acro. then would you not trust it too be, thats what the vendor rating forums are for right?
Levi

wickedfrags · #10 05-14-2009, 09:46 PM

I have NEVER directly imported corals into this country, as such I do not receive the documents. Read my post above - I asked for the documents for business purposes and they would not provide them!!!

Now if I did import from another country, well I would have the documents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Yes Dave, I agree it's not a reasonable request to see these documents. However, I have a copy of a note where you asked for the same documents.
I'm really getting annoyed with this whole topic Dave, and these posts are getting old. Please just give it a rest.

People have asked - they have not received any info from the person who did the importing other than "trust me"

Hence interest in the discussion remains as they search for information before making their next person. Read a lot - think for yourself right!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquattro

If someone wants a paper trail, ask the seller. In private. There has been enough arguing here about it, and it's now run past it's course.

No such system at all - you are taking the persons word for it.

What some people are after is just some proof that these were imported from the US in the last little while. We already know Steve Tyree does not expert himself to canada - and that is ok becuase we need to trust the person doing the selling. We all know they are mostly from indo at some point, however these particular pieces were re-exported from the US, so the importer should be able to say ya, we have the import permit from the US into Canada.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoaElite

Does anyone know, besides CITES if there any other system which can act to verify the legitity of stock? When Tyree releases a frag, does it come with a certificate or something specifying its authenticity? It seems a little silly to ever ask for something like this, just a whole lot of extra work. If the coral looks exactly like the LE Red Planet Acro. then would you not trust it too be, thats what the vendor rating forums are for right?
Levi