Coral experiments

[kien]

I'm not too surprised. Don't we freeze things all the time to preserve them? Especially in the medical fields. Cryogenics anyone?

[soapy]

One of these nights those plays are going to crawl out of their tank and come sting you in your bed.

[Patwa]

This thread has got me a bit perturbed. I should have posted this as soon as I read your first post a few days back, but I was left more in disbelief than anything else, and plus, it's been a hell of a week at work and home..sigh.

I saw the reaction on RC when you posted it and I have to agree with the latter sentiments there that what you're doing lacks any remorse and is essentially careless. Nevermind the complete absence of the notion of animal husbandry in what you're doing - the central reason we're all hobbyists!

The point i'm going to make is that they're animals. They have a central nervous system - a system that tells them when there is danger and when it is safe and how to react. When you do something like intentionally harming them, they will react as any animal in that situation would. We're not talking about accidental death - we're talking about trying to kill the animal by using extreme stress (cold), compounded by time.

The mad science aspect of this is quite evident - can they survive the freeze? Good question, but i'd recommend you ask a coral researcher or dig through some marine journals if you're honestly that curious.

I dunno, maybe you have too much time on your hands....but as they say, idle hands are the devil's tool? (or however it goes). Try and find some other way to use your time...maybe try and see how you can get them to grow faster, eh?

You've been in the hobby a long time, just as I have...thus, i'm blown away that you still can't come to appreciate the fact that it is a living creature, and that what you're doing is trying to quantify how and to what extent you can end its life.

anyhoo.....Im blown away it lived that first night....but i'm not going to applaud your efforts.........I think you should stop this "experiment" asap.

[jorjef]

I doubt it was living the first night, the fact it was open means nothing. Was it responding/retracting if disturbed, unno and don't really care to sift through to see. As far as mad scientist goes I don't think Denny is a real threat in the big scheme of things. Alot of us scorched a few spiders with magnifying glasses.

[Patwa]

doesn't have to be a "threat" in the grand scheme of things. it's just fundamentally a wrong endeavor to take on...big or small, the ethics of killing something intentionally is not something to be taken lightly

i'd like to think you and the rest have grown up from the days of scorching spiders with magnifying glasses and calling out for mom when you fell off your bike. You're all big boys/girls now, time to make better decisions about the animals you keep.

I bet this indifference I see in this thread is a matter of people not realizing a zoanthid is an animal, yeah? amirite? the absence of a discernible face or appendages doesn't lessen its importance. But if that's the measure some of your fall back on, keep in mind: it eats and poops!

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by Patwa

This thread has got me a bit perturbed. I should have posted this as soon as I read your first post a few days back, but I was left more in disbelief than anything else, and plus, it's been a hell of a week at work and home..sigh.

I saw the reaction on RC when you posted it and I have to agree with the latter sentiments there that what you're doing lacks any remorse and is essentially careless. Nevermind the complete absence of the notion of animal husbandry in what you're doing - the central reason we're all hobbyists!

The point i'm going to make is that they're animals. They have a central nervous system - a system that tells them when there is danger and when it is safe and how to react. When you do something like intentionally harming them, they will react as any animal in that situation would. We're not talking about accidental death - we're talking about trying to kill the animal by using extreme stress (cold), compounded by time.

The mad science aspect of this is quite evident - can they survive the freeze? Good question, but i'd recommend you ask a coral researcher or dig through some marine journals if you're honestly that curious.

I dunno, maybe you have too much time on your hands....but as they say, idle hands are the devil's tool? (or however it goes). Try and find some other way to use your time...maybe try and see how you can get them to grow faster, eh?

You've been in the hobby a long time, just as I have...thus, i'm blown away that you still can't come to appreciate the fact that it is a living creature, and that what you're doing is trying to quantify how and to what extent you can end its life.

anyhoo.....Im blown away it lived that first night....but i'm not going to applaud your efforts.........I think you should stop this "experiment" asap.

theres always one i guess....anyways ill bite as i love a good debate and am in the arguing mood:P



ok so you mean to tell me that you have never swatted a fly on purpose?.......sure


how about stepped on an ant?........sure

how about pulled a handful of hair algae off the rocks?...........sure

how about removed a bristle worm or intentionlly killed pods with a filter sock or your skimmer?....sure

hell just running a skimmer is knowingly killing numerous pods on a daily basis so how is my one polyp any different from your pods? ............sure

please.....how naive can you be????


i guess my point is if your worried about the one little animal( whos half plant btw) then your in the wrong hobby to begin with everything we do is a risk to an animal or do you disagree?

have you never lost a fish?

just adding the fish to your tank was a unnecessary risk and really YOU were the one who put the risk on this ANIMAL .....in all reality how dare YOU take a risk like that on another animal huh???

like the guy who says its a sin to kennel a dog but its ok to own one in a 5oo sq ft apartment lol

people like you i really have to laugh at , your to mighty to see what the general public does as nothing but different then what you do , yet you do the same as anyone else but see it from a different view

experiments like these could or could not change your world , doesnt matter who does the test results are results.

i have pics of polyps on a microscopic level , wev'e tested with all kinds of factors and stresses so i go beyond buying a pretty animal and hoping for the best with its life , i grow and propogate the same animal that you kill time and time again , so yes i purposely killed 4 polyps just like the guy who purposely kills off an aiptasia anemone but the dif is i didnt do it to make things pretty in my eyes i did it to better understand the animal and its limits.

the ocean is %95 unmapped......are you going to do it?






so yes i feel your pain but in fact i think your no better than me



thanks for your nickle but i have enough loose change lol


cheers

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by Patwa

doesn't have to be a "threat" in the grand scheme of things. it's just fundamentally a wrong endeavor to take on...big or small, the ethics of killing something intentionally is not something to be taken lightly

i'd like to think you and the rest have grown up from the days of scorching spiders with magnifying glasses and calling out for mom when you fell off your bike. You're all big boys/girls now, time to make better decisions about the animals you keep.

I bet this indifference I see in this thread is a matter of people not realizing a zoanthid is an animal, yeah? amirite? the absence of a discernible face or appendages doesn't lessen its importance. But if that's the measure some of your fall back on, keep in mind: it eats and poops!

please do talk to me about ethics lol do you not have a tank or do you?

wow.....


again get off your high horse .......your no better than anyone is in this hobby is, be it if you raise fish from fry, rescue corals or simply own a tank for viewing you are destroying and determining the faith of an animal who was better before you or me came along :P

you cant offer what the ocean can so you cant say that your fish will live a longer life in your tank than in the wild no? no because you know the life span on a fish in the wild is over ten years , you know what it is in aquariums? average 3 yrs lol so when you sell your pretty clown to a friend and he kills it its your fault isnt it i mean it was your responsibility wasnt it?

geesh

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by jorjef

I doubt it was living the first night, the fact it was open means nothing. Was it responding/retracting if disturbed, unno and don't really care to sift through to see. As far as mad scientist goes I don't think Denny is a real threat in the big scheme of things. Alot of us scorched a few spiders with magnifying glasses.

well i have one polyp left , it does have a response and will close up , this was one of the first things i checked as i assumed the polyps froze in an open way but it closes and opens

out of the 4-5 polyps i have 1 left but it is ****y i really dont think its going to make it long term though the cells were to badly damaged.

so what does all this mean?

well to say that you need to run home in an hour as the water will go cold is prob abit extreme lol

how about shipping overnight vs 3 days?

well may not give any serious insight to what corals go through during the shipping process but it gave me a better idea of what extremes a zoanthid polyp can handle ....why is this important?


knowing a corals limitations can determine things like temperature needed to kill nudibranchs for example.

useless information?

not to me.......

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by Patwa

I saw the reaction on RC when you posted it and I have to agree with the latter sentiments there that what you're doing lacks any remorse and is essentially careless.

geesh i had to go check RC to see what you meant and then realized only two other people besides you though it was wrong lol which i would have expected

so just so we are clear on this its 10 people to your 3(incuding you) who disagreed lol but yeah a big "reaction " for sure.

keep an eye out for my next experiment ok?


thanks!!

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2386267

[jorjef]

Hey Denny, lets go get a Snickers..